Towing a small pop up with a CRV

Adam H wrote:
Nope. Read the tow capacities listed for the SAME vehicle with the SAME power train sold outside the US, read the specs for yourself. The campers I saw were traveling along at about 60mph or so. I can't imagine the 10% rule changes outside North America but these weren't Casitas, the were 20 foot tandem axle TTs. I guess pictures are in order next time I'm there.

Traveling 1-2 hours or 8-9 hours makes no difference if you can't safely tow something.

Adam

I love pics... I lived there for years, there are 20 ft tandems just as you said.. but there are lots and lots of single axle small caravans.

The diesel versions of these cars are not available here (some exceptions), while their petrol counterparts are available on both sides of the pond in a lot of cases. There is a huge tow capacity disparity between the European versions and the NA versions. I believe that tongue weight capacity has a lot to do with it.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

Nope. Read the tow capacities listed for the SAME vehicle with the SAME power train sold outside the US, read the specs for yourself. The campers I saw were traveling along at about 60mph or so. I can't imagine the 10% rule changes outside North America but these weren't Casitas, the were 20 foot tandem axle TTs. I guess pictures are in order next time I'm there.

Traveling 1-2 hours or 8-9 hours makes no difference if you can't safely tow something.

Adam

Ryanincc wrote:

Adam H wrote:

When I travel to other countries I see all sorts of compact cars/small SUV's towing TT's, PUP's. They seem to be doing just fine, even on the Autobahn. I have come to believe we over think this subject in the US. Just look at tow ratings outside the US on the same vehicles. Once again, if you don't have a 1 ton dually, you can't tow anything more than a utility trailer. How well trained we have become here, like sheep.
Adam

Seeing a small car in Europe towing a decent trailer can lead a yank to such conclusions. However, EU travel trailers are made with the axles closer to the TV, which reduces tongue weight. and towing speed limits are generally much lower than the US as well. That allows for smaller vehicle to tow but the same setup here in the US would have you white knuckling the whole way.

Yep, in Europe you are typically an hour or two away from your destination.

Many of those small vehicles are equipped with a small diesel and a manual transmission which gives it an advantage towing. Their caravan trailer design doesn't concentrate on tongue weight to keep the rig stable... There is a lot in common with our boat trailers. Typically a 5-7% ish tongue weight....

Surge style brakes, "ball stabilizers" (sway control) and sensible towing max speeds lead for smaller cars.

Plus Europeans do more with less... Think Casita and maybe the Visa and you are getting close to a European single axle Caravan...Most North American RVers would be dis-satisfied with a European caravan.

Funny thing is that Europeans pull horse trailers and such with their cars too.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

Adam H wrote:

When I travel to other countries I see all sorts of compact cars/small SUV's towing TT's, PUP's. They seem to be doing just fine, even on the Autobahn. I have come to believe we over think this subject in the US. Just look at tow ratings outside the US on the same vehicles. Once again, if you don't have a 1 ton dually, you can't tow anything more than a utility trailer. How well trained we have become here, like sheep.
Adam

Seeing a small car in Europe towing a decent trailer can lead a yank to such conclusions. However, EU travel trailers are made with the axles closer to the TV, which reduces tongue weight. and towing speed limits are generally much lower than the US as well. That allows for smaller vehicle to tow but the same setup here in the US would have you white knuckling the whole way.

PAThwacker,

the 1640LTD has an UVW of 1,399#, not the 1,937# you claimed. A bit 'o difference....

I will certainly agree with you that 3,500# rated tow vehicles probably should not be used to pull 12 footers with slide-outs and front trunks. But they work fine under virtually any paved road conditions with 12 foot, low wall pups NOT equipped with slide-outs and front trunks. They just may require a decent wdh. Much like a standard half ton pickup really ought to have a wdh for any camper over 4,500#. Half tons also become pretty marginal when approaching their nominal rated capacities. If anything, the 3,500# rated vehicles are more realistically rated than most half ton pickups are on a proportioned basis.

I had a glamper flagstaff classic 625d 12 footer with slide out,??, bathroom, and front trunk
18.6 feet bumper to tongue, 3400lbs loaded to camp with 450lbs tongue weight. No 3500 capacity tow vehicle whatsoever should tow that floor plan.

manualman wrote:
I call baloney. My 12 footer Fleetwood is only 2,000# empty. How could anybody make an 8 footer weigh that much? Fleetwoods were known as the porkers of the pup fleet.

Please cite a brand and model with those actual weights. The Taos was under 1,200#.

That's a modern day forest River Mac or LTD 8 foot pup

My Flagstaff loaded for Camping is about 2700 lbs... and thats with a slide out, two large beds , and a bathroom...

I have to watch the tongue weight because it can get up to 460 lbs!.. its a very nose heavy trailer.

But it tows like its on rails... sway control or not!

Thanks!

Jeremiah

Yup, Fleetwoods tow terrible... if you go camping with no LP, no battery and nothing loaded in the camper. Show of hands? ;)

My Fleetwood came with an unloaded tongue well under 10% and I love it. By the time I fill the LP tank, plop the G31 battery on, load up the duffels, bedding, cooler and food she's at about 270# tongue - a perfect 10%. With my 350mini wdh rigged to the minivan, I'll put my stability up against any TT not packin' Orange. Dumb design is when you put so much tongue weight on a popup that you need a pickup to handle the tongue weight. Then, indeed, why not get a TT?

In fairness, the mid-oughts Bayside model got a lot of sway complaints. Never towed one, can't really comment. My Sun Valley tows like a dream. Tens of thousands of miles on her and never once has the trailer tried to manhandle us. Few TT guys who have crossed South Dakota can saw the same!

Mike Up wrote:

manualman wrote:
I call baloney. My 12 footer Fleetwood is only 2,000# empty. How could anybody make an 8 footer weigh that much? Fleetwoods were known as the porkers of the pup fleet.

Please cite a brand and model with those actual weights. The Taos was under 1,200#.

My none slide, 2007 Starcraft 2407 was 2700 lbs loaded and had a 300 lbs tongue weight I weighed myself.

There were 8' and 10' models with 200 lbs and more, tongue weight. 2005 Rockwood 2290 Pop Up was even heavier and had a 400 lbs tongue weight.

Fleetwood pop ups were known to have a design defect (among the many more :R ) with their light 9% tongue weight that caused sway. That's why they always came with the sway control device. Great for inadequate tow vehicle suspensions but bad for safety and handling.

Hmmmm, consider the source....

When I travel to other countries I see all sorts of compact cars/small SUV's towing TT's, PUP's. They seem to be doing just fine, even on the Autobahn. I have come to believe we over think this subject in the US. Just look at tow ratings outside the US on the same vehicles. Once again, if you don't have a 1 ton dually, you can't tow anything more than a utility trailer. How well trained we have become here, like sheep.

My parents towed an Aristocrat TT all over with an LTD with a whopping 195HP smogged out V8 and a clamp on trailer ball. The bumper was dragging the ground for years, they survived.

Adam