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syndrome85's avatar
syndrome85
Explorer
Aug 02, 2017

Towing a Travel Trailer with a Pontiac G8

Hello all. I have a general question about towing a 2,600 lb (when completely empty) light weight travel trailer with a 2009 Pontiac G8. The manual on the G8 says about towing: It should never weigh more than 2,000 lbs. But even that can be too heavy. I tried to explain this to the person that has this set up, but they told me that has to do with a class 1 trailer hitch. He insisted that his towing setup (hardware) is well equipped to handle the trailer, cargo (both in the trailer and in the car), 2 adult passengers, and an infant. My concern is that they are putting their kid (and themselves) in serious danger by towing this trailer with the current set up. I wanted to know if anyone else has experience with this or with dealing with someone like this. The G8 has a brake controller installed and the tongue weight on the trailer is 312 lbs according to the trailer manual. Can someone please let me know if i am way too worried about this? Do you think this is a safe set up? Is there something else i am missing? Please let me know.
  • Bumpyroad's avatar
    Bumpyroad
    Explorer
    Aug 05, 2017
    Shal36 wrote:

    My point is that this whole thing about if you tow overweight (even by ten pounds) your truck will fall apart and you will crash into a busload of innocent orphans and you will automatically be held 200% liable for all damages and you will lose all your worldly possessions when a band of RV attorneys chase you down and flog you in public is a bit overdone on this forum.


    and also over done is the continual insistence that you won't face a civil suit for doing stupid things, such as try to tow with a seriously deficient tow vehicle.

    bumpy
  • Shal36's avatar
    Shal36
    Explorer
    Aug 05, 2017
    Ralph Cramden wrote:
    Shal36 wrote:
    In most accidents, if there are injuries, you can expect an attorney to be involved. The choice of attorney probably comes down to who advertises in that market. I doubt plaintiffs are thinking, "that RV was overweight...I'd better contact a special attorney for this." The attorney doesn't care if you were overweight, underweight, towing with the refrigerator running on propane, towing with a full tank of fresh water, or if you had your outdoor speakers playing while driving....they want to recover the maximum amount. Maybe it's easier for them to settle for the max if they can show gross negligence to the insurance company.


    How many World Famous RV litigators do you need? A quick google for "RV accident attorneys" will yield you many.

    Litigator

    Maybe not world Famous, maybe not famous at all, but I quote.

    "Because of their weight and length, recreational vehicles are subject to special regulations. For instance, Arizona law requires an auxiliary braking system when towing 3,000 pounds or more, such as a camper trailer or car. RV manufacturers also specify maximum weight and towing loads. We can bring in professionals to examine the wreckage for evidence that the motor home was dangerously overweight or unbalanced, that the tires or brakes were worn, that the hitch was not rated for the load"


    I Think their angle is to demonstrate max liability in seeking a max settlement. That's easier to do if there's a bunch of stuff the defendant did "wrong." It's easier to deflect liability if you have "clean hands." Once the accident happens, the defendant' insurance company is on point for resolving he matter with the plantiff's attorney. The RV attorneys may be able to get closer to max payout relative to an attorney who doesn't specialize in RV accidents but the defendant won't notice a difference.

    My point is that this whole thing about if you tow overweight (even by ten pounds) your truck will fall apart and you will crash into a busload of innocent orphans and you will automatically be held 200% liable for all damages and you will lose all your worldly possessions when a band of RV attorneys chase you down and flog you in public is a bit overdone on this forum.
  • drsteve's avatar
    drsteve
    Explorer
    Aug 05, 2017
    Another factor is his insurance would likely not pay out in an accident due to his negligence.


    That's what insurance is for--to pay for accidents/negligence/stupidity. If they could weasel out of paying because the insured was at fault, they would do it all the time.

    They pay when the driver is drunk. They pay if he falls asleep because he tried to drive too long. They pay when the tires are bald and one popped and caused an accident. Anything less than a deliberate criminal act is generally a covered peril.
  • Ralph_Cramden's avatar
    Ralph_Cramden
    Explorer II
    Aug 05, 2017
    Shal36 wrote:
    In most accidents, if there are injuries, you can expect an attorney to be involved. The choice of attorney probably comes down to who advertises in that market. I doubt plaintiffs are thinking, "that RV was overweight...I'd better contact a special attorney for this." The attorney doesn't care if you were overweight, underweight, towing with the refrigerator running on propane, towing with a full tank of fresh water, or if you had your outdoor speakers playing while driving....they want to recover the maximum amount. Maybe it's easier for them to settle for the max if they can show gross negligence to the insurance company.


    How many World Famous RV litigators do you need? A quick google for "RV accident attorneys" will yield you many.

    Litigator

    Maybe not world Famous, maybe not famous at all, but I quote.

    "Because of their weight and length, recreational vehicles are subject to special regulations. For instance, Arizona law requires an auxiliary braking system when towing 3,000 pounds or more, such as a camper trailer or car. RV manufacturers also specify maximum weight and towing loads. We can bring in professionals to examine the wreckage for evidence that the motor home was dangerously overweight or unbalanced, that the tires or brakes were worn, that the hitch was not rated for the load"
  • Bumpyroad's avatar
    Bumpyroad
    Explorer
    Aug 05, 2017
    it must be kept in mind that the only thing the lame stream press is interested in is that first photo of the rV on it's side, etc. to draw readership. what occurs months/years later, either in court or out of court settlement is never mentioned.
    but this thread reminds me of all of those "can I town this ... with my ..." and a response will include suggesting converting their f 150 to a f 550 by spending $500 at J.C. Whitney.
    bumpy
  • Shal36's avatar
    Shal36
    Explorer
    Aug 05, 2017
    In most accidents, if there are injuries, you can expect an attorney to be involved. The choice of attorney probably comes down to who advertises in that market. I doubt plaintiffs are thinking, "that RV was overweight...I'd better contact a special attorney for this." The attorney doesn't care if you were overweight, underweight, towing with the refrigerator running on propane, towing with a full tank of fresh water, or if you had your outdoor speakers playing while driving....they want to recover the maximum amount. Maybe it's easier for them to settle for the max if they can show gross negligence to the insurance company.

    You cause an accident, you're likely to get sued. That's why you have insurance. That lawsuit will likely seek your policy limit and the issue will likely be settled out of court. If you have easily attached assets, the attorney may go for that, too, but the effort to do so probably only makes it worthwhile if there's a lot of unprotected assets.

    This recurring topic thread lead me to do a little research. While the lawyer issue seems to always come up in these threads, what rarely comes up is the possibility of an involuntary manslaughter charge should someone be killed as a direct result of gross negligence. The examples I have found involved improper hitching and lack of safety chains that led to a trailer coming loose and hitting someone (usually a pedestrian or bicyclist). In those examples, a manslaughter charge wasn't always filed by the DA as the DA is the one who has to make that decision.
  • Ralph_Cramden's avatar
    Ralph_Cramden
    Explorer II
    Aug 05, 2017
    soren wrote:
    Shal36 wrote:
    Fireballsocal wrote:
    Should he have an accident where someone else is hurt, any lawyer will point to the tow ratings on the car and say he was overloaded and negligent. He will be found partially, if not completely at fault and he might even run the risk of his insurance not covering him. .


    If you are at fault, even if within tow ratings, the lawyer is going to go for the max on your policy limits. Your insurance company can try to deny coverage, but the plantif's lawyer has a vested interest in making them cover the incident. They can try to go after your assets if you have any, but if you structure things correctly, that stuff is difficult to get to and most people have more debt than assets. I suppose you could be found criminally negligent and face criminal penalties, but in civil court, there's only so much they can get and they're getting that from your insurance


    There are two undying universal truths that will appear on this forum until the end of time. First, if you ever have an accident, and you are using any piece of equipment that isn't 100% RV.net towing police approved, some incredibly talented and knowledgeable "world famous recreational towing ligator" will magically appear, and sue you for everything you are worth. You will lose everything, and your great grandchildren will still be paying off the debt in 2075.

    Second, is the perennial favorite. If you don't turn your propane fridge off before you enter a gas station, you WILL die a horrible flaming death.

    Then there is reality.....................




    I agree with you 100% on both....with a disclaimer.

    Let a death be involved and you're at fault, and you then stand a fair chance of meeting up with the world famous recreational towing litigator.

    We had a worker commit suicide by launching himself off the roof of a 22 story building a few years back we were building. His wife (who had a lot to do with him sailing himself off the building in the first place) sued us (General Contractor), the owners, the company the individual worked for, and a slew of others to the tune of 16 million for "wrongful death". When it finally went to Jury trial 3 years later it was thrown out on the first day. In the Judges own words. "Quite clearly a suicide, case dismissed". By then everyone and their Insurance companies were all out a few million in legal fees regardless.

    When I was pulled in to some of the depositions, I could not believe some of the stuff the litigators had dug up. They actually knew more about me than I did myself I think. Don't think something like what you reference in your very funny post can not happen, as I assure you it can.
  • Huntindog's avatar
    Huntindog
    Explorer
    Aug 04, 2017
    EstorilM wrote:
    Huntindog wrote:
    dodge guy wrote:
    In fact it has a tranny cooler in the radiator.


    Ummm. As far as I know, all auto tranny vehicles have an tranny cooler in the radiator!

    It has a serious shortcoming for towing service.
    It can only cool down to the temp of the antifreeze!
    Towing tranny coolers are in addition to that. They cool by airflow OUTSIDE and before the radiator.

    Generally speaking, most newer high-performance automatic transmissions will operate at-or-above coolant temperatures. I've had older vehicles with external trans coolers, and all the newer versions of said vehicles (with higher all-around ratings) now have integrated coolers.

    Assuming your coolant is a set temperature (ie. obviously regulated by tstat to stay exactly the same) then clearly everything was designed for the trans to operate at the same temp as well.

    If you start bumping up coolant temps that's an entirely different issue / system, but generally that's not a problem.

    Trans coolers were a big deal in mid-late 90's and early 00's trucks / SUVs etc, but it's quickly becoming cliche now. At least from what I've seen / experienced.
    Some things have changed over the years. 180-195 Tstats used to be the norm. Now 215 or even higher is the norm.
    Tranny temps are best kept below 200 for longest life. That hasn't changed. My 2011 Dmax Allison combo runs tranny temps in the 160s.

    You cannot cool a tranny that much with a cooler inside the radiator.
  • Bird_Freak's avatar
    Bird_Freak
    Explorer II
    Aug 04, 2017
    I asked my brother about these horrible litigators that jump up to sue folks are always talking about here. He just retired from Allstate as a claims adjuster trainer. He told me he has never seen it happen like that in 38 years he has been training new adjusters. Too many doom and gloom people here and I can't tell you how many times ive been blown up at gas stations either.

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