towing poundage//correct??

JIMNLIN wrote:

If that was the case the trucking industry would be shut down and our courts would be plugged up in lawsuits with overloading per the truck makers GVWR. It hasn't happened and no one has ever come up with a credible link to back up that claim.

That's because there actually is commercial laws (and there enforced).

It's just a matter of the "right" (ie.rich/famous) person being hit by an overloaded RV, and you'll see it happen.

JN_B wrote:
snip....

That's where this whole conversation is leading. What's legal vs not.

Agree and that day when they can prove it is coming much faster than
most think

The OEM's now have non-volatile memory for the computers...so the tuners
no longer can erase...so the OEM's can not tell if it has been tampered
with (tuned)

For now, they can't 'prove' over loading...but most of the sensors are
there NOW. Originally thought they would need strain gauges, but not
really with today's level of sensors and software already there

Missing must be a sensor for 'incline' and 'altitude'.

Once they can sense that and when they 'want to', they just marry
those sensors to 'torque management' to either be able to tell and/or
won't allow you to in power mode...just allow limp mode over a certain
level of torque vs ambient conditions

Then it will simulate a flesh and blood draft animal that won't go
if the load is too much...vs...the in-animate TV we have today. Truly
think that folks who drive draft animals understood loading much
better than folks today driving in-animate vehicles

On well...off the soap box...just noodling this stuff based on all
of the confusion on the HOW2's of ratings management...and the constant
din of folks saying sure you can...just remove the stuff if you go in
to claim warranty...or that it's not illegal as they don't check, etc

azwildcat99 wrote:
The legal limits are only part of the story. I believe mfr. gvwr to be the max in my case because if something goes wrong and I'm over any if my limits then the civil suit just got a whole lot easier.

If that was the case the trucking industry would be shut down and our courts would be plugged up in lawsuits with overloading per the truck makers GVWR. It hasn't happened and no one has ever come up with a credible link to back up that claim.

This to ponder;
Ford Fleet.com spec sheets page #73 show a 2014;
F350 SRW 11200 GVWR and a 10000 GVWR with the same 5600 FAWR 6290 RAWR with a 174.2" wb 6.7/auto 4x4 and same 17" tire and wheel packages. Both trucks brakes are specked the same. Like I said above the truck maker can give any GVWR rating he chooses as long as the GVWR isn't over the sum of the trucks GAWR's.

azwildcat99 wrote:
The legal limits are only part of the story. I believe mfr. gvwr to be the max in my case because if something goes wrong and I'm over any if my limits then the civil suit just got a whole lot easier.

That's where this whole conversation is leading. What's legal vs not.

I firmly believe that you should be under all your numbers (GAWR, GVWR, GCWR, tire ratings, etc.), as with the way insurance is nowadays, they will probably drop coverage instantly if you are over any of the Mfr's numbers, during an atfault accident.

The legal limits are only part of the story. I believe mfr. gvwr to be the max in my case because if something goes wrong and I'm over any if my limits then the civil suit just got a whole lot easier.

nevadanick wrote:
Jn_B, here in Nevada it's only registration and tire capacity that they can cite for.

Do you have the paperwork (ie.laws) to back this up?

Jn_B, here in Nevada it's only registration and tire capacity that they can cite for.

JIMNLIN wrote:

Agree with Lawrosa.
Actually the truck maker can use the sum of the GAWRs as the trucks GVWR if he so chooses. The truck is designed around the GAWR's.
Some of the newer trucks GVWR is within 200-300 lbs of the sum of the axle rating. And some of the new trucks with the higher GVWR will over load by using GVWR to determine a payload.

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Having towed commercially for over 800k+ miles with mostly one ton DRW trucks operating in the 26000K-32000K combined I've never heard of private trucks come under a different size and weight regulations till I became a RV.net member 10+ years ago so..... I asked my state DOT about it. He gave me the deer in the head light stare and said all vehicle on the road come under just one size and weight reg.
A private use truck doesn't have to declare a GCW operating range or HOS or IFT or many other commercial requirements. But they do have the same axle/tire load limits. Tires are required per the FMVSS to meet or exceed the vehicles highest GAWR. DOT can take the lessor of the two.

I'm not disagreeing with either of you, I'm just trying to get the facts (not heresay).

I tend not to believe what DOT says (re:this topic) unless it is backed up by paper (bylaws), as most states/provinces don't enforce this "issue".

FHWA....Questions and Answers about Vehicle Size and Weight

23 CFR 658.5 Definitions

Q.. Are recreational vehicles subject to Interstate axle weight limits?
A. Yes.

Back to Top
Q.. Are recreational vehicles required to stop at State scale sites?
A. Each State may set its own requirements.

This is exactly what I was looking for. Awesome Thanks.

JN_B wrote:

lawrosa wrote:

Do you have a source for that definition? Is that applicable for both personal & commercial?

Commercial is dictated that way. Non commercial is taken from there and provisions are in state laws.

Commercial is dictated that way because There are hundreds of different options for axles/frames/cabs/etc. So the easiest way, is to use the tire rating, which the majority of the time is the weakest link.

Other then this if the DOT pulled you over they only know commercial law as I am aware and will adopt that when weighing your rig.

Seems pretty easy to get out of a ticket then.

I understand why commercial is done that way, but I still don't see anything about non-commercial. And considering everything else is different from commercial vs non, I can't see this being the same.

I'm of the mindset (with non-commercial) that GVWR is the absolute max a vehicle is designed to weigh. Axle weight ratings show what the max load for that axle is.

As an example, wouldn't it make sense that if a truck's RAWR+FAWR=GVWR that the complete truck is designed for GVWR. Whereas if RAWR+FAWR>GVWR than something inbetween the axles is not designed for (full RAWR+FAWR).

GVWR is not so much as you stated "the absolute max a vehicles is designed to weigh" ... it is a safety certified number based mainly on brake performance certification testing. GAWR can vary to account for various options, etc. For example my Van has a normal 4400 FAWR, but can be ordered with different front springs resulting in a 4600 GAWR (called a one up Front) but the GVWR doesn't change and remains 9500 for both configurations. Same might apply for say snow plow options in trucks.

Larry

I'm of the mindset (with non-commercial) that GVWR is the absolute max a vehicle is designed to weigh. Axle weight ratings show what the max load for that axle is.

As an example, wouldn't it make sense that if a truck's RAWR+FAWR=GVWR that the complete truck is designed for GVWR. Whereas if RAWR+FAWR>GVWR than something inbetween the axles is not designed for (full RAWR+FAWR).

Agree with Lawrosa.
Actually the truck maker can use the sum of the GAWRs as the trucks GVWR if he so chooses. The truck is designed around the GAWR's.
Some of the newer trucks GVWR is within 200-300 lbs of the sum of the axle rating. And some of the new trucks with the higher GVWR will over load by using GVWR to determine a payload.

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Having towed commercially for over 800k+ miles with mostly one ton DRW trucks operating in the 26000K-32000K combined I've never heard of private trucks come under a different size and weight regulations till I became a RV.net member 10+ years ago so..... I asked my state DOT about it. He gave me the deer in the head light stare and said all vehicle on the road come under just one size and weight reg.
A private use truck doesn't have to declare a GCW operating range or HOS or IFT or many other commercial requirements. But they do have the same axle/tire load limits. Tires are required per the FMVSS to meet or exceed the vehicles highest GAWR. DOT can take the lessor of the two.
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

FHWA....Questions and Answers about Vehicle Size and Weight

23 CFR 658.5 Definitions

Q.. Are recreational vehicles subject to Interstate axle weight limits?
A. Yes.

Back to Top
Q.. Are recreational vehicles required to stop at State scale sites?
A. Each State may set its own requirements.