Trailer brakes issues

Gdetrailer wrote:

Nvr2loud wrote:

Lynnmor wrote:
You really want to keep the factory controller. It will perform much better than after-market units.

I don't necessarily disagree... but why do you feel that way?

I'm only thinking about other complicated electronics that car manufacturers attempt to make and aftermarket is typically far superior (Radios, GPS, Alarms, Auto-starts, heated washer fluid, heated seats... the list goes on and on)

I have often found that an aftermarket manufacturer specializes in a very specific technology and that OEM typically does not have the experience to get it right.

While I personally do not "like" all of todays "integration" I would have to FULLY AGREE with FINDING OUT the problem and using the IBC instead of merely bypassing it with a LESSER aftermarket controller.

The reason for my feelings is you simply can not get a aftermarket INERTIA type controller to work as well as the IBC, IT IS THAT GOOD.

I can't say about GMs since I have a Ford, but let me tell you my 2013 F250 with IBC works exactly like my older Jordan Ultima 2020 controllers. The IBC however unlike aftermarket controllers also are DESIGNED to work with the vehicles ABS AND trailer stability control systems.

Over all I am pleased with my IBC.

Now on to the trouble shooting.. IBCs (especially when they first came out) are very sensitive to WIRING PROBLEMS, aftermarket controllers ARE NOT. Before you say that being "sensitive" to wiring problems is bad thing.. I would rather KNOW NOW that there is a problem BEFORE I go a towing...

The IBC actually shoots a pulse out to the brake wire, it monitors the for RETURN pulse, if the return pulse is too weak or mis shaped the controller will determine that it does not have a trailer with brakes connected and it will not indicate that the trailer is connected.

Bad wiring on the trailer can weaken, delay or mis shape the return pulse.

A bad magnet can also affect the return pulse (electromagnets act like a transformer to a certain extent, the pulse builds the magnetic field when the pulse stops the field collapses and when that happens a reverse voltage spike is created which is what the IBC is looking for).

The problem most likely is the TRAILER wiring, trailer manufacturers tend to cheap out on the wire size, they often will splice multiple short pieces of wire together, NONE of the splices are using weather resistant connections. In a nutshell GARBAGE and the IBC controllers WILL see a problem.

I would start by taking the tires off, rework ALL the connections at the wheels. If the wires are run inside the axle tubes, SCRAP those wires and run NEW wires on the OUTSIDE of the axle tubes. This IS a known issue where the wires inside the tube move around and chafe the insulation causing intermittent shorts.

At the same time I would highly recommend scrapping and replacing all the brake wiring from front to back, most manufacturers use 14 ga wire which is borderline for the distance and current draw. Use at a minimum of 10 ga stranded wire (I used TWO PAIRS of 10 ga wire on mine).

Make sure that the wires are not grounded at the axles, the ground wires for ALL brake magnets MUST go up to the tongue and be grounded at the frame and the ground wire from the tow vehicle.

Like I said, I didn't necessarily disagree.... I just have zero experience with IBC's. All your points seem like a huge benefit over an aftermarket controller (and I have typically found aftermarket electronics to be superior for other devices) particularly with the integration of the ABS, testing pulse, and sway control.

I would be very interested in trying out an IBC myself some time soon.

Lynnmor wrote:

Nvr2loud wrote:

Lynnmor wrote:
You really want to keep the factory controller. It will perform much better than after-market units.

I don't necessarily disagree... but why do you feel that way?

I'm only thinking about other complicated electronics that car manufacturers attempt to make and aftermarket is typically far superior (Radios, GPS, Alarms, Auto-starts, heated washer fluid, heated seats... the list goes on and on)

I have often found that an aftermarket manufacturer specializes in a very specific technology and that OEM typically does not have the experience to get it right.

Well it isn't a "feeling." I know that the OEM brakes are applied according to how much pressure your foot has on the brake pedal. Nearly all of the after-market units apply the trailer brakes by using a sensor that detects deceleration. I would rather be in control of the brakes.

I didn't disagree, I just don't know about them and I stated that. I can certainly agree that there is a huge difference in aftermarket controllers. I had a very cheap one that was okay, then I got the inertia style one and it was a thousand times better, and if the IBC's are even better then that.... then I want one!

trail-explorer wrote:


I'd remove all splices and redo them with heat shrink insulated splice crimps.

AGREED!!!

Thanks for all of the great info, i'll look into the wiring and see what i can come up with...what a PITA, i know for sure that there was a ground issue right off the battery, i sorted that out and it worked right away, then the next day when we left it didnt...after the weekend it worked perfectly on our wat home, parked the trailer for about an hour at home to unload, then nothing on the short drive to the storage... Before next trip i will have it sorted, hopefully sooner...

Thanks again

Is there any special wire to use for this or can i simply use #10 stranded? Is there a certain type of insulation i should be looking?

Im pretty sure that the wire used was #16 but thats just off of memory

Yes, it is a pain to crawl under and check the wiring.

My first experience with crappy factory wiring was back in 2007 when I serviced the bearings and adjusted the brakes on my toy hauler. I found one brake out of the four that had never worked since day 1, and that was after I'd owned the rig for 4 years. The wires were assembled with crimp connectors, but were not making proper connection.

Another trailer I bought new, I checked everything before making the first trip. It was a flatbed car hauler. It used crimp connectors, but not the heat shrink style, so water could get in. If I were to tow during the winter, when deicer is used on the road, corrosion would surely wreak havoc.

This was a flatbed car hauler for my Jeep.

The crazy thing is, not the same style crimp connectors were used at all wheel positions.

One brake assembly was this:




Another one was like this:




After my upgrade:

trail-explorer wrote:
IBC applies trailer brakes in total and complete proportion to the amount of truck brakes being applied, because it's tied in to the hydraulic system and senses brake fluid pressure.

Check all the connections between the brake assemblies and the wiring on the trailer. Some manufacturers use some pretty shoddy wiring techniques such as Scotch Locks or even WIRE NUTS!

I'd remove all splices and redo them with heat shrink insulated splice crimps.

Better proportional controllers such as the prodigy P2 and P3 apply power to the trailer brakes also based simply on the fact that you step on the pedal. The "increase" in power to the trailer brakes is largely influenced by the rate of decel. They also have the ability to customize the initial level of "boost" when you first step on the pedal.
I use a prodigy on one of our trucks, and it works well. We have the IBC in the F-350, and it too works well. The main difference I see is the Ford IBC is somewhat smoother in it's application of the trailer brakes. My "opinion" is that part of the reason it is smoother is that it is ramping up power to the trailer brakes with a slight delay, so I do not "feel" the grab of the trailer brakes initially, like I do with the prodigy and it's boost feature engaged. With boost on the P2, I feel the trailer immediately give a tug when I first hit the pedal. And I can see it on the display on the controller as well.

I agree with the above quote that I would go thru all the electrical connections first of all. Just as general idea, I would be more suspicious of bad electrical connections on a trailer than I would of a factory fault with the truck.

camperforlife wrote:
I have the integrated controller on my 11 GMC. Compared to the three past aftermarket controllers including the Prodigy that I have owned, none can come close.

I agree, though I did have a BrakeSmart controller, which operated just as smoothly as an integrated controller on my 2009 Silverado.

BrakeSmart is similar to the MaxBrake, in that it senses brake fluid pressure.

When you have a brake controller that sends out a signal to the trailer brakes based on hydraulic pressure, or movement of the brake pedal like the Jordan does, everything is smooth and seamless with regard to trailer braking.

With a brake controller that relies on a small amount of g-force that occurs when braking, like most any other brake controller (Voyager, Prodigy, etc) there's a very short delay after you hit your brakes before the trailer brakes start being applied. If you apply the truck brakes ever so slightly, you may not even get enough g-force to occur to even cause the brake controller to realize it needs to apply the trailer brakes.

The bigger and heavier the trailer is, the more noticeable the above becomes.

I encountered this with my toy hauler, which was around 7500+ lbs loaded. The brake delay was unnoticed on my little 1000 lb cargo trailer.

Another example of the annoyances was that the amount of trailer brake activation wasn't consistent - it varied or was non existent with light truck brake application.... again, this was very pronounced with the heavy toy hauler. I was continually fiddling with the Voyager brake controlled I first had. I eventually sold it to a friend and upgraded to a Prodigy. The fiddling was less, and I could use the boost function to do my "fiddling".
I'd run on no boost when driving around town and dial it up to B2 when I was on highways.

With the Voyager, if I set it to a given setting where it wasn't too jerky on surface streets, I didn't have enough braking action at higher speeds. If I set it to give me good braking action at highway speeds, then the braking was too aggressive on surface streets. When I upgraded to the Prodigy, the boost function helped with this. With either brake controller, I never could find a happy medium of "set it and forget it" when towing the toy hauler.

The voyager used a "pendulum" to monitor the G-force. It had a dial on the side to use to set the angle you had it mounted it.
The Prodigy is a bit more intelligent and uses an accelerometer (if I recall correctly) so the delay on activating the trailer brakes is almost non existent, unless you very lightly apply the truck brakes.

I began to get tired of always fiddling with the boost function of the Prodigy, and the jerkiness on surface streets if I tried to find a happy medium that gave me good brake action at highway speeds.

I had read a lot about the Jordan and the BrakeSmart, and one other one that I forgot the name of - they were the only "smart" brake controllers at the time.

About a year went by before I finally convinced myself to get a BrakeSmart (which is no longer available.) That was in 2006. I'd had the toy hauler 3 years at that point in time.

NIGHT AND DAY difference!!

The trailer brakes are seamless, and operate in complete unison to the amount of truck brakes I apply. No more jerkiness, no more fiddling with settings for highway or surface streets, no more clanging and banging of the hitch when the trailer tried to stop the truck because the setting was too high.

I used the BrakeSmart until I sold that truck in 2009. In 2008 my brother bought a new Silverado dually and told me about the integrated brake controller (IBC). I was determined to get an IBC in my next truck. I upgraded to a 2009 dually in the fall of 2009.

The smaller and lighter a trailer is, the less annoying a "dumb / old school" aftermarket brake controller is, because you won't notice the annoyances I described above.

Once a person experiences the seamless operation of a smart brake controller or IBC, then they realize what they missed out on!

The new truck has 30000 miles on it now, about 25000 are with a trailer behind it. I downsized to a truck camper. I still have trailers though, and always am towing something, either with the camper on the truck, or without the camper.

Just like with the BrakeSmart, I love the seamless operation of the IBC. The only time I fiddle with the setting is when I switch to a different trailer, or if my load in a given trailer is different than the previous trip and warrants a change in brake setting.

Earlier this year I used my dad's truck, a 2006 Silverado, with a Prodigy brakes controller, to tow the trailer below on 3 trips, about 650 miles round trip, loaded heavy. 20 miles or so were on surface streets at the end of the first leg of the trip, and the beginning of the return trip. Stop lights everywhere. I was fiddling with the settings when transitioning between highway and surface streets again, the hitch was clanging and banging, which it never did on my truck. It was a nice reminder of how much better an IBC is.

The benefits of smart controller or IBC become much more apparent the bigger and heavier a trailer is.

The big trailer:



The small trailer:

Something else to check on the wiring is where the trailer cord splices in to the trailer's wiring.

Usually there's a junction box on the tongue, or under the front of the trailer where the wiring connects.

On my toy hauler it was an access port on the under side of the floor, just behind the hitch. There's probably shoddy connections there too, just like at the brake drums.

herbhofmann wrote:
He was more interested in hitting the road than visiting the dealer again.

I can understand that. :B