Transmission service

DownTheAvenue wrote:

powerstrokeaaron wrote:

I am a tech at Toyota and our dealer recommends a drain and fill with filter replacement at 15k and then every 30k after that.

That is because the dealership is just trying to boost sales in the service department. It is amazing to me that the dealership knows more than the manufacturer and anyone would believe tjhem over the manufacturer. Obviously, the dealership is more worried about their financial health than their customer's!

My toyo dealer is notorious for pushing services that are not called for my Toyota. They must have put an annotation in the computer to not try this on me any more since one time I finally had it and went nutso on them. :B I notice they are especially successful with the senior citizen generation.

I'd do what the owners manual says.

Not directly related to the OP, but in my Ram, the manual calls for a filter and fluid replacement at 120k under normal driving conditions and at 60k under severe duty. I perform it at 60k since we do a good amount of towing at capacity.

I perform a flush each time and it's not hard to do at all. I disconnect the return line from the cooler, attach a section of hose, drop the other end in a milk jug, then turn the truck on a let it pump out exactly a gallon. After that add a gallon back into the transmission. Do it 3 more times and I'm done.

The ATF+4 that they use in these trucks doesn't give good indicators of it's condition so doing a flush is playing it safe. For me doing a flush isn't very time consuming or costly really. All together to replace the pan filter, spin on filter, gasket, and 16 qt comes out to less than $100. If you're going to skip on a flush them it's a good idea to have a UAO done just to be sure you're still riding on good stuff. Better safe than sorry.

Gdetrailer wrote:

OK.. I will bite..

Have you ever thought that the manufacturer would like to ENSURE they will get future sales?

Transmission oil DOES break down, but at a much slower rate than say engine oil..

Transmission oil is basically HYDRAULIC oil, only with a few "additive packages" blended in..

I can tell you this, with owning a tractor with a front loader and backhoe, hydraulic fluid CAN get worn out by contamination from the AIR.. More specifically MOISTURE in the air. Hydraulic fluids are "hygroscopic" , in other words it ATTRACTS MOISTURE..

Learned that the hard way one extremely brutal cold winter when my hydraulics FROZE.. Yeah, the water suspended in the fluid FROZE and plugged the filter..

So, in some respect, "refreshing" your transmission fluid IS A GOOD THING TO DO if you wish to have a transmission with a long, long life.

I will however disagree with folks that feel the need to change out the entire volume of fluid by using a pump exchange or needlessly changing fluid at 30K or less intervals.. I would however recommend reading your owners manual and use their figures for the mileage especially while under warranty.

Forced pumping risks damaging pump seals and many newer transmissions require a HEATED exchange (IE transmission has a thermostat that needs warm fluid in order to open the external cooler circuit).

Personally, I simply dump the fluid that is in the transmission pan (newer vehicles often have pan plug other wise you will need to remove the pan). Then refill the pan.

I have waited as long as 80K miles for the first time since most of my driving is highway miles which helps drive out any moisture that the fluid may have attracted.

Doing this several times over the life of your ownership of said vehicle will refresh the oil.

So far, this has worked well with my 2003 F250, has 200K miles on the transmission and still going!

You are right on all counts but I still stand by my words and let me tell you why. These new automatic transmissions are sealed for a reason. The sealing keeps out dirt, dust, grit, and to some extent the water you are talking about. The engineers have designed a transmission that if left alone, will last a certain lifespan. I don't know off hand however on the tundras like my 06, I expect 250,000 on an average truck. If you drain and refill the fluid, yes you are refreshing the additives and draining contaminants however you are also possibly admitting dust, dirt, grit, and moisture to the inside of the transmission. Yes, a tiny amount but still not what the transmission was sealed up with. The lifetime oil means for the life of the transmission which is has been very reliable across the Toyota product range, aside from some mid nineties Camrys.

On the contaminants, the transmission is designed to function correctly with those contaminants floating around in there. If you look at the filter, it is just a coarse mesh strainer now, designed to catch any big chunks. Much like plain engine bearings like con rod bearings, that are designed with a soft base metal like brass that will imbed big particles that aren't caught by the engine oil filter, the trans is designed to function perfectly with junk in the oil.

Toyota engineers figure the best lifespan of the transmission is to follow what is written in the owners manual because the engineers wrote it. It's there in writing forever and if it is there in writing, Toyota knows some lawyered up yuppie can and will come after them in the future if what is written in the owners manual is bad info.

In the end, you can feel free to second guess the engineers, the legal team, or Toyota as a company but understand you are probably not a mechanical engineer with a lot of schooling and experience to draw from.

DownTheAvenue wrote:

powerstrokeaaron wrote:

I am a tech at Toyota and our dealer recommends a drain and fill with filter replacement at 15k and then every 30k after that.

That is because the dealership is just trying to boost sales in the service department. It is amazing to me that the dealership knows more than the manufacturer and anyone would believe tjhem over the manufacturer. Obviously, the dealership is more worried about their financial health than their customer's!

It called "UPSELL" when a sales person gives you the double talk/hard sell of "add on" products and or services.

Dealer sales people don't know and don't care about what is written in the vehicles owners manuals.. They are only concerned about making their sales numbers.

The owners manual spells out what service is needed and when..

Folks DO fall for sales people double speak, a fellow I worked with for a few years bought into his dealerships nonsense.. His Honda dealer scared him into a FULL TEARDOWN of his only 4 yr old Honda car engine..

Yep, he paid nearly $2K for what should have been only maybe $400 for a timing belt and even that was unnecessary since he only had 40K miles on it :S

They got him every time he took his vehicle in for "service" things like oil changes.. Always some add on thing they "recommended" and he bought it without ever blinking a eye.

powerstrokeaaron wrote:

I am a tech at Toyota and our dealer recommends a drain and fill with filter replacement at 15k and then every 30k after that.

That is because the dealership is just trying to boost sales in the service department. It is amazing to me that the dealership knows more than the manufacturer and anyone would believe tjhem over the manufacturer. Obviously, the dealership is more worried about their financial health than their customer's!

Coffee Grinder wrote:
Any options on transmission service: draining vs flushing. I know draining doesn't get the torque converter. Have a 2016 Tundra and the dealers have varied opinions on service as well as mileage intervals. Some say 100,000 mi. Any info will be appreciated.

Use the ' Severe Service' maintenance schedule. My manual lists 60k trans fluid. My Tundra is not the daily driver. 60-70 pct of the miles are towing and the dealer where I get my work done has that flag in their computer records for my truck.

Fireballsocal wrote:
Toyota calls it lifetime fluid for a reason. You will get the best value from the drivetrain by following the owners manual instructions. You paid a premium buying that truck over a domestic because of the perceived reliability behind the Toyota brand. Let them make the call on when to service the components. And to those doing auto trans fluid changes every 5, 10, or 15K? Really?

OK.. I will bite..

Have you ever thought that the manufacturer would like to ENSURE they will get future sales?

Transmission oil DOES break down, but at a much slower rate than say engine oil..

Transmission oil is basically HYDRAULIC oil, only with a few "additive packages" blended in..

I can tell you this, with owning a tractor with a front loader and backhoe, hydraulic fluid CAN get worn out by contamination from the AIR.. More specifically MOISTURE in the air. Hydraulic fluids are "hygroscopic" , in other words it ATTRACTS MOISTURE..

Learned that the hard way one extremely brutal cold winter when my hydraulics FROZE.. Yeah, the water suspended in the fluid FROZE and plugged the filter..

So, in some respect, "refreshing" your transmission fluid IS A GOOD THING TO DO if you wish to have a transmission with a long, long life.

I will however disagree with folks that feel the need to change out the entire volume of fluid by using a pump exchange or needlessly changing fluid at 30K or less intervals.. I would however recommend reading your owners manual and use their figures for the mileage especially while under warranty.

Forced pumping risks damaging pump seals and many newer transmissions require a HEATED exchange (IE transmission has a thermostat that needs warm fluid in order to open the external cooler circuit).

Personally, I simply dump the fluid that is in the transmission pan (newer vehicles often have pan plug other wise you will need to remove the pan). Then refill the pan.

I have waited as long as 80K miles for the first time since most of my driving is highway miles which helps drive out any moisture that the fluid may have attracted.

Doing this several times over the life of your ownership of said vehicle will refresh the oil.

So far, this has worked well with my 2003 F250, has 200K miles on the transmission and still going!

Toyota calls it lifetime fluid for a reason. You will get the best value from the drivetrain by following the owners manual instructions. You paid a premium buying that truck over a domestic because of the perceived reliability behind the Toyota brand. Let them make the call on when to service the components. And to those doing auto trans fluid changes every 5, 10, or 15K? Really?

I bought a used CTD with the 4 speed transmission that had never been serviced. Shifting and takeoff were rough. I installed an extra capacity cast aluminum pan with drain plug while changing the filter and adjusting the bands. I did two splash and fills (7 quarts each) and now drain and fill 7 quarts every other oil change. Whole new transmission in the way that it drives. The fluid change is real easy with the drain plug. Fresh ATF most of the time.