Forum Discussion
- Electric = almost zero lag in applying and releasing were in a air brake system there is a 2 to 4 second lag time between the tractor brakes and trailer brakes. Ask me how I know, rainy night in Tn descending about a 7 mile grade :E. First real grade in the rain, a true sphincter work out that night! :(
Don rowekmr wrote:
When I was studying for my CDL in the early 90's they talked about the "Johnson" bar in the cab for the trailer brakes and how you'd apply them to keep trailer in line, avoid jackknifing, etc but when I went to upgrade back a few years ago there wasn't any talk about that. Actually they only used it to test the trailer brakes before the start of the trip for the practical and that was it's only mention/use.
Old school guy here and yes the Johnson bar was my early friend for the most part. Zero ( or almost) tractor brakes and maybe 90% leased trailer brakes. No brainer really.
The Johnson bar is really no different than your manual slide bar for the trailer brake controller. Well maybe one is air and the other is electric but the same concept.- The driver wouldn't be any better driving a 550, 650, 750, 800, 900, etc.. Stupid is stupid.
Bedlam wrote:
transferred wrote:
Fast Mopar wrote:
It sounds like you are implying that since a diesel truck is heavier than the same model gas truck, that the diesel would be able to handle the load better due to the extra weight. Actually, according to the manufacturers, this is not true. A 4WD truck is a little heavier than the same truck with 2WD, and the 2WD version has a slightly higher tow rating. Likewise, a regular cab truck is lighter than the same truck in a crew cab, and the regular cab version has a slightly higher tow rating. Look up the tow ratings for any of the Big 3 and that is what you will find. Certainly a diesel truck will be rated to tow more than an equivalent gas truck, but it has nothing to do with the fact that the diesel engine weighs more than the gas engine.
You misunderstand me, I know the diesels are not rated for more weight I simply mean that at some point the tail is unable to wag the dog. For instance, if it was a class 6 towing the smallish TT it would still have swayed but the TV would not have been flipped around facing oncoming traffic. I doubt an extra 1k on the tow vehicle would've stopped the F250 being flung around but weight of the tow vehicle IS a factor with heavier being better.
Your citing of the truck manufacturers ratings is due to combined weight factors (why a 2wd is rated for more etc) involving lots of things but simple physics was behind my statement, nothing more. Of course, driving to fast and not properly using/setting up the trailer brakes are the primary causes of this incident.
Vehicle weight does make a difference in what you are towing, but the distribution of the weight is more telling. If you compare a gasoline and diesel pickup, most of the weight difference is up front and will not change how it handles towing. Add a truck camper or pallet of bricks to either truck bed and it will tow better (until the suspension gets overloaded).
My Ram 5500 is 3000 lbs heavier than my previous Ford F250. When I tow my 8000 lb enclosed trailer, the extra weight in back of the Ram (due to the extra set of wheels, steel deck and 52 gallon fuel tank) allows less interaction with the trailer tongue weight. Once I load the 4000 lb truck camper on either truck and hitch up the trailer there is even less effect on the tow vehicle caused by the trailer.
Very true.transferred wrote:
Fast Mopar wrote:
It sounds like you are implying that since a diesel truck is heavier than the same model gas truck, that the diesel would be able to handle the load better due to the extra weight. Actually, according to the manufacturers, this is not true. A 4WD truck is a little heavier than the same truck with 2WD, and the 2WD version has a slightly higher tow rating. Likewise, a regular cab truck is lighter than the same truck in a crew cab, and the regular cab version has a slightly higher tow rating. Look up the tow ratings for any of the Big 3 and that is what you will find. Certainly a diesel truck will be rated to tow more than an equivalent gas truck, but it has nothing to do with the fact that the diesel engine weighs more than the gas engine.
You misunderstand me, I know the diesels are not rated for more weight I simply mean that at some point the tail is unable to wag the dog. For instance, if it was a class 6 towing the smallish TT it would still have swayed but the TV would not have been flipped around facing oncoming traffic. I doubt an extra 1k on the tow vehicle would've stopped the F250 being flung around but weight of the tow vehicle IS a factor with heavier being better.
Your citing of the truck manufacturers ratings is due to combined weight factors (why a 2wd is rated for more etc) involving lots of things but simple physics was behind my statement, nothing more. Of course, driving to fast and not properly using/setting up the trailer brakes are the primary causes of this incident.
Vehicle weight does make a difference in what you are towing, but the distribution of the weight is more telling. If you compare a gasoline and diesel pickup, most of the weight difference is up front and will not change how it handles towing. Add a truck camper or pallet of bricks to either truck bed and it will tow better (until the suspension gets overloaded).
My Ram 5500 is 3000 lbs heavier than my previous Ford F250. When I tow my 8000 lb enclosed trailer, the extra weight in back of the Ram (due to the extra set of wheels, steel deck and 52 gallon fuel tank) allows less interaction with the trailer tongue weight. Once I load the 4000 lb truck camper on either truck and hitch up the trailer there is even less effect on the tow vehicle caused by the trailer.- ABS man I've been away a long time we didn't have ABS! I think the newer Ford SD with integrated brake controller have some kind of anti sway system.
- I don't think they even have Johnson Bars or trailer hand brake in big trucks anymore? I thought I heard that they went away when ABS systems were put on tractors.
- When I was studying for my CDL in the early 90's they talked about the "Johnson" bar in the cab for the trailer brakes and how you'd apply them to keep trailer in line, avoid jackknifing, etc but when I went to upgrade back a few years ago there wasn't any talk about that. Actually they only used it to test the trailer brakes before the start of the trip for the practical and that was it's only mention/use.
- My MDT that is longer in WB 188", heavier by maybe double that truck, 11600 sitting there. A GRAWR more than that truck combined at 15500, front is 8K.....
Still more than likely would have ended up in the same situation as the person in the video.
I've has issues towing my 8500 lb equipment trailer with the bobcat on it. When I mistakenly loaded it to the rear with literally NO hitch wt. I've had a 1 ton flatbed with a single axel trailer, loaded with a pallet of sod on the rear start to go, nearly taking out the truck.
A number of years ago, memorial day weekend of 2005 or 2006, a F350 pulling a 5W did something similar north of me in Marysville. trying to go around folks in the upper 60 to low 70 range. He blew up also.
Speed, side wind, coming out from the truck with its bow wave, All contributed to this issue. Possibly along with to little hitch weight. Yeah maybe a hensly or pull right hitch might have helped. But I doubt it.
This was an accident waiting to happen no matter the trailer style or type attached to what ever sized weight of truck for that matter.
Marty - What a great instructional video.
I showed DW this video. She has exactly one short tow under her belt but I told her if you're ever towing our trailer and it starts doing this reach down and slide the lever on the brake controller.
It's puzzling to watch. Surely he must have expected to pull it out of the sway.
