Upcoming mid-size SUV's for towing

RinconVTR wrote:


1. We are talking Mid-Size SUV's in this thread, from the very first post and on. Get a clue. If you don't want to call the 2016 Pilot a mid-size SUV, fine. But it didn't shrink in size, it got larger/longer then before. And if the Pilot is not a mid-size, then Highlander is not either by size and definition if you play that game. Its really pointless either way, and I really don't want to get into what marketing opts to call it. I don't care.

Sounds like you're a newby. This thread is talking about Crossover cars. SUV are body on frame, not unibody. When the auto industry went to car based unibodies on an AWD wagon, they were called Crossovers. If you have a true ladder frame, then you have a SUV, if you have a unibody, you have a crossover. Size, engine, looks has nothing to with it, it's what's underneath.

I never said Highlander, I said 4Runner. The Toyota 4Runner is a SUV with a body on frame build, the Highlander is a car with a wagon body style (Crossover). You need to know the difference before stating inaccuracies. Even Ford knows the difference and doesn't try to disguise the fact. They have SUVs and Crossovers.

RinconVTR wrote:


2. I was not over ANY TV rating towing the trailer shown and I have no idea why you're going off about it. You are all about assumptions aren't you? Again, don't talk about what you do not know.

Being that the Pilot has a weak 450 lbs hitch receiver rating, and your camper isn't that light, I'm sorry, I don't believe you. With a trailer of that weight, loaded you will be well over 450 lbs.

If you weighed it, you most likely made the common mistake of thinking the extra weight on the rear axle, with a weight distribution hitch ENGAGED, is the tongue weight. NOPE, you have to compare the trucks rear axle weight with the trailer disconnected against the rear axle of the truck with the trailer connected, and weigh with the weight distribution spring bar disengaged.

RinconVTR wrote:


3. Honda's statement about WDH says nothing about safety, nor strength of their vehicles. You know nothing. Seriously. Stop making assumptions and posting you're own made up BS.

Obviously your lack of knowledge has made you frustrated. When a car maker says they recommend against it or don't recommend it for handling, that is definitely a safety concern. Most other makers state how unsafe and how poor the handling and stability will be if you DON'T USE a WDH. They recommend a WDH be used over a specified weight. I can't see why any maker would recommend an unsafe tow recommendation unless the weakness of their vehicle would be the greater safety concern.

BTW, if you don't use a makers recommended oil, grease, or other fluid and there is damage to an affected component that uses that fluid, and that maker finds that a none recommended fluid type has been used, believe it, they will definitely deny warranty coverage.

RinconVTR wrote:

BenK wrote:
Note that any OEM reference to: "recommend" is more than that...

If something goes wrong and you claim warranty...then if they find out that you
did NOT follow their 'recommendation'...they can deny

Sorry, but this is very false and completely inaccurate. Dealers might scare you with such verbiage, but OEM's will not. Dealers are not owned by the OEM's.

Examples;

1. Every OEM "recommends" that you use their brand fluids. Do you?

2. We all have an "recommended" oil weight stamped on the oil cap. Mine says 5w-20. But I use 0w-20. And what if I run 5w-30? If you think it voids any warranty, you would be wrong.

3. Many manufactures "strongly recommend" specific break in procedures, yet I hear people whose flat out refuse to follow them. Does this void their warranty? No.

I can go on forever with this sort of thing, so I hope you get the point.


OP, I'm sorry to hijack this hijack...but I am really getting sick and tired of the******info being posted here.

X2
But I honestly thought this was going to turn into a "you must have a F350 dually to tow a Jetski" vs " I can tow the Space Shuttle with my Chevette" argument :)

Mike Up wrote:


For those thinking the Ford Ecoboost engines don't require premium fuel, the Ford Ecoboost models are recommended to use Premium fuel, 93 octane. It's right on their website for all the 2.0l, 2.7l, and the 3.5l ecoboost vehicles.

Wrong.

You do not own an Ecoboost, and seem to have a vendetta against them that I don't quite understand.

From the owners manual of our 2013 Ford Edge:

Octane Recommendations
3.5L/3.7L V6 engines
“Regular” unleaded gasoline with a pump (R+M)/2 octane rating of 87 is
recommended. Some stations offer fuels posted as “Regular” with an
octane rating below 87, particularly in high altitude areas. Fuels with
octane levels below 87 are not recommended.
2.0L V6 EcoBoost™ engine
“Regular” unleaded gasoline with a pump (R+M)/2 octane rating of 87 is
recommended. Some stations offer fuels posted as “Regular” with an
octane rating below 87, particularly in high altitude areas. Fuels with
octane levels below 87 are not recommended. Premium fuel will provide
improved performance and is recommended for severe duty usage such
as trailer tow.

BenK wrote:
Note that any OEM reference to: "recommend" is more than that...

If something goes wrong and you claim warranty...then if they find out that you
did NOT follow their 'recommendation'...they can deny

Sorry, but this is very false and completely inaccurate. Dealers might scare you with such verbiage, but OEM's will not. Dealers are not owned by the OEM's.

Examples;

1. Every OEM "recommends" that you use their brand fluids. Do you?

2. We all have an "recommended" oil weight stamped on the oil cap. Mine says 5w-20. But I use 0w-20. And what if I run 5w-30? If you think it voids any warranty, you would be wrong.

3. Many manufactures "strongly recommend" specific break in procedures, yet I hear people whose flat out refuse to follow them. Does this void their warranty? No.

I can go on forever with this sort of thing, so I hope you get the point.


OP, I'm sorry to hijack this hijack...but I am really getting sick and tired of the******info being posted here.

Note that any OEM reference to: "recommend" is more than that...

If something goes wrong and you claim warranty...then if they find out that you
did NOT follow their 'recommendation'...they can deny

Mike Up wrote:

First off, we're not talking midsize SUVs but midsize crossovers. Only midsize SUV available for current year is Toyota 4 Runner.

And yes, they are not capable of towing anything but very tiny travel trailers and pop ups unless you're a fool and believe it to be alright to exceed your GVWR, axle ratings, and hitch receiver rating. Then you'd definitely need good sway control due to the crossovers very short wheelbase.

For R-pod size and weight trailers, okay but going up will exceed your hitch receiver rating, along with other ratings if you plan to tow with a family, and depending on vehicle, maybe only a couple. I've seen Ford Edges with only 800 lbs of payload which leaves little capacity for anything other than the driver and trailer tongue weight.

Only a fool will believe it to be okay overloading a vehicle beyond its limits.

1. We are talking Mid-Size SUV's in this thread, from the very first post and on. Get a clue. If you don't want to call the 2016 Pilot a mid-size SUV, fine. But it didn't shrink in size, it got larger/longer then before. And if the Pilot is not a mid-size, then Highlander is not either by size and definition if you play that game. Its really pointless either way, and I really don't want to get into what marketing opts to call it. I don't care.

2. I was not over ANY TV rating towing the trailer shown and I have no idea why you're going off about it. You are all about assumptions aren't you? Again, don't talk about what you do not know.

3. Honda's statement about WDH says nothing about safety, nor strength of their vehicles. You know nothing. Seriously. Stop making assumptions and posting you're own made up BS.

Bumpy, you're correct about the Ecoboost regular-vs-premium fuel. There's a report on a Mustang forum that appears reliable, based on Ford training materials, that says the 2.3 Ecoboost engine generates 310 HP/320lb-ft on premium but drops to 275 HP/300 lb-ft on regular. Supposedly it runs just fine on regular, so it's not a durability issue -- just a power & torque issue. I would think that the ECU dials in less ignition advance and/or richer mixture, based on knock sensor readings, when running regular. In my situation, I wouldn't have a problem with this scenario. The reduced HP/torque on regular gas would be fine for me while not towing, and I'd just fill up with premium prior to towing. Best of both worlds, maybe ... although I'd like to know the MPG results for premium vs regular. If the MPG declines with regular gas, then maybe premium might be beneficial all the time -- and I'd have to think hard about that, compared to a regular V6 that never needs premium.

(Edit) just to clarify ... sounds like the Ecoboost engines only "require" regular, but the published HP & torque ratings were obtained using premium fuel. Not sure if premium was used for the published MPG ratings, needs more research. It does seem a little deceptive on Ford's part to claim the requirement is regular but ratings were obtained with premium ... but I wonder if other manufacturers play this game also? I believe every engine has an ECU that can adjust tuning to octane, not just the turbo ones.

Mike Up -- I think I've been extremely clear that this is NOT a travel trailer. Not sure why you're highjacking this thread to complain about Honda's and CUV's in general. Maybe you should start a different thread for that discussion. I have towed my trailer for over 25 years behind several different SUV's and CUV's, approximately 100,000 miles total, without any accidents, sway, hitch failures, axle failures, or any other type of failure. Certainly, we all need to be safe out there -- but let's stick to the topic or start a new thread.

Bumpyroad wrote:
stopped by Ford today and got a brochure for the Escape, didn't have one for the Edge. gives estimated hp and torque for the two eco boost engines using 93 octane fuel. 2.5 L duratec didn't have that notation. the salesman insisted that they would run on regular gas. now his lips were moving but perhaps it will operate on regular giving less hp/torque/mpg????????

oh, I did give a cursory glance at the fuel filling area,etc. and there was no "premium fuel required" decal anywhere that I could find.

bumpy

All the EcoBoosts run on regular except the 2.3L in the new Lincoln SUV.

The only time premium is recommended is while towing.

RinconVTR wrote:

bikendan wrote:
Honda's anti-WDH policy is why we didn't buy a Ridgeline to tow our HTT.
any company that has such a policy, doesn't trust their vehicles to be capable for towing.

Honda is not anti-WDH. Read their text. Their word of caution is about the WDH being improperly adjusted. Its ridiculous.

I would never tow a TT with any Honda without a WDH. At 300-450lbs or more of TW, there is no Honda that should tow this weight without a WDH. They are ALL sprung too soft not to use a WDH.

Don't see any word of caution there. What I do see is that Honda feels their car to be unsafe using such a device.