US might have been wrong about Ethanol

time2roll wrote:
Or maybe just a farm subsidy that created a lobby too big to stop.

The sooner more is transitioned to electric the better. ;)

One subsidy for another I guess.

Cummins12V98 wrote:

time2roll wrote:
Or maybe just a farm subsidy that created a lobby too big to stop.

The sooner more is transitioned to electric the better. ;)

One subsidy for another I guess.

I am opposed to any new EV subsidy. Tesla and GM are already out. Others will follow soon if they actually produce any.

Two of the five best selling cars in CA are Tesla without federal subsidy in 2021. Will be more Tesla production very soon out of TX.

time2roll wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

time2roll wrote:
Or maybe just a farm subsidy that created a lobby too big to stop.

The sooner more is transitioned to electric the better. ;)

One subsidy for another I guess.

I am opposed to any new EV subsidy. Tesla and GM are already out. Others will follow soon if they actually produce any.

Two of the five best selling cars in CA are Tesla without federal subsidy in 2021. Will be more Tesla production very soon out of TX.

I am also talking so called "Green Energy".

Cummins12V98 wrote:

time2roll wrote:
Or maybe just a farm subsidy that created a lobby too big to stop.

The sooner more is transitioned to electric the better. ;)

One subsidy for another I guess.

EVs are mostly sold out right now without subsidies. The price of the Model Y has gone up $11,000 in the past year while the build cost has gone down so this is due solely to market demand vs supply. Even with the price increase the current lead time is 5 months. Why anybody thinks that EVs need subsidies is beyond me. Elon Mush has come out against subsidies too. I would love to get a rebate on mine but if I did I would chuckle at the stupidity of our government while I was cashing the check.

Two new factories are ramping up production of the Model Y right now and I have little doubt that when Tesla does catch up with demand they will reduce the price to spur demand rather than slow production.

Also, Tesla is rapidly expanding their charger base without government subsidies.

Fisherman wrote:
Who says they have to grow those enormous amounts of corn, there's nothing wrong with letting the land lay fallow for a season or two.

Nobody pays a farmer or his huge investment, to just sit there while their land lays fallow.

Geo*Boy wrote:

Fisherman wrote:
Who says they have to grow those enormous amounts of corn, there's nothing wrong with letting the land lay fallow for a season or two.

Nobody pays a farmer or his huge investment, to just sit there while their land lays fallow.

That's why ethanol for fuel is essentially a farm subsidy -- ethanol requirements and tax breaks for ethanol production creates demand for corn that wouldn't otherwise be there.

As with most “save the planet” ideas, this one was junk science as well

fla-gypsy wrote:
As with most “save the planet” ideas, this one was junk science as well

I thought that all the restrictions that were placed on auto and trucks to make their exhaust clean was going to be be all. Now that they accomplished that they have to have another hot topic for the extremists to rally around.

If we truly wanted clean air we would stop importing so much from China that is one of the worlds worst polluters.

YES Ethanol is bad in many ways. The fuel burned to produce it does not pencil out.

Geo*Boy wrote:

Fisherman wrote:
Who says they have to grow those enormous amounts of corn, there's nothing wrong with letting the land lay fallow for a season or two.

Nobody pays a farmer or his huge investment, to just sit there while their land lays fallow.

Crops yields are also not guaranteed. You never know what the weather is going to do. Get a wet year or a dry year or a cold year or a hot year and yields are severely diminished. You plant every inch you can to hedge against a bad year.

The ethanol industry would never have, and still won't survive very long without taxpayer subsidized support. It cost more to produce than regular gasoline. It was marketed as a midgrade fuel, at a higher price initially and was failing. Human nature to buy cheapest fuel at the pump.

Mentioned above...crop yields not guaranteed, so yes, a bad year is likely. The answer is, like many businesses, or the lowly wage earner, you save when profits are high, or invest them in a good year. Everyone needs to plan ahead, whether it is year by year, or long term. Most cases, folks that require bailouts, will learn to expect it, and always need it.

Jerry