V-10 problems

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Desert Captain wrote:
I rechecked the Ford website and for my 2011 Chassis (2012 24' E-350 Nexus), the V-10 reaches max torque of 420# at 3,250 and max HP of 305 at just 4,250. No reason to exceed 4,250 and you will find a lot of that lost mileage alive and well at 3,250 as it is torque that moves you up the mountains.:C

If the OP was lamenting that his V10 was not fast enough towing on the hills why would you suggest him to run at 3,200 RPM and lose 50 more horsepower? :R

Did you even read my post? I did not recommend running at 3,250 but merely pointed out that is where max Torque occurs. The main reason the OP was unhappy with performance was his reluctance to simply put his foot down and let the V-10 do what it does best {as noted in my first post, et al}.

Max HP will not necessarily get you the best performance vs Max Torque particularly when climbing steep grades.

You recommended (as I recall), running at 4,750, which {besides being absurd}, does nothing but burn more fuel with zero improvement in performance vs 4,250 (max HP). I also noted that peak performance - which is a mixture of speed and efficiency - can almost always be had at less than peak HP.

:C

Desert Captain wrote:
I rechecked the Ford website and for my 2011 Chassis (2012 24' E-350 Nexus), the V-10 reaches max torque of 420# at 3,250 and max HP of 305 at just 4,250. No reason to exceed 4,250 and you will find a lot of that lost mileage alive and well at 3,250 as it is torque that moves you up the mountains.:C

If the OP was lamenting that his V10 was not fast enough towing on the hills why would you suggest him to run at 3,200 RPM and lose 50 more horsepower? :R

As has been alluded to by others here you lose HP dramatically as elevation rises. I believe that for NA gas engines you lose 3 per cent for each thousand feet of elevation, think thinner air. At just 8,000' that translates into 24 per cent less available HP.

I rechecked the Ford website and for my 2011 Chassis (2012 24' E-350 Nexus), the V-10 reaches max torque of 420# at 3,250 and max HP of 305 at just 4,250. No reason to exceed 4,250 and you will find a lot of that lost mileage alive and well at 3,250 as it is torque that moves you up the mountains.

On long steep grades I am usually running 50 to 55 in 4th at 3,200 rpm and rarely will the 5 speed Torque Shift trans drop down to third kicking up to 4,200 for a brief period of what is usually significant acceleration.

Frankly even at 4,250 my V-10 is just humming along and not all that loudly, conversation in the cab is not negatively impacted. Over the last three+ years and 32,000+ miles we have averaged 9.5 {including 60 hours of generator time}, like clockwork and I usually run at or very near my GVWR (often towing my Harley - bike and trailer just under 1,000#).

If you don't have one get a Scan Gauge and start monitoring your trans fluid temps, use Tow Haul or turn off the O/D and put your foot down and go!

:C

And as soon as the motor/RPM's start pinging off of the rev limiter, and the injectors start cutting out as directed by the motor electronics, you will get the message that you were pushing just a wee nad too much. However, as stated, you cannot hurt the dang thing like I used to do on a regular basis when I was younger and big six pak carbs were the order of the day!

Cheers!

Mike

BenK wrote:
Depends...on the ICE's torque/hp curve....

The higher numeric diff will allow the ICE to rev HIGHER...therefore more HP delivered

:R :R :R Hmmmmmmm, I have changed gears in my car more times than I can count and it NEVER allowed the engine to rev higher. It rev'ed to 7,500 RPM before the gear change and it rev'ed to 7,500 RPM after the gear change! If the OP does not want to go above 4K he can put 6 to 1 gears in the back and it won't help. In fact, for a given RPM the vehicle will go slower. My tractor has like 20 to 1 gears in it. It's not exactly blazing fast! :B At WOT in low, low it is cooking along at a blazing 1/2 MPH! :E


Look up that V10's torque/HP curve at 4K RPM vs something like 5K RPM...the HP WILL be HIGHER

The OP "does not like" to rev his V10 above 4 grand. He said that. His actual words are: "I have let it to up to 4000 rpm at times but and it sounds awful when it does." It does not matter if he looks it up or not. If He won't let at engine rev above 4000 grand he won't get full power out of it.

I don't care WHAT kind of gear he puts in the rear end; it won't help! In fact, with that load he will more than likely slow down!



Of course...up to the point where torque drops...then HP will likewise start to drop...

At 5252 HP will ALWAYS go up and torque will ALWAYS go down. 5252 is where they will cross. ALWAYS! As Mr. Thomas Andrews would say: "it tiz a mathematical certainty." :B

But...the OP wants to stay lower in the RPM range for 'that' ICE...seemingly wanting
It to behave like a diesel... :B

Exactly!

I have no idea where all of this RPM phobia comes from? It's an epidemic on RV.net and other places. I've tried and failed to cure it. About the only cure for it is a brand new diesel. :B

I'll give it one more shot. There is not red line on any modern engine. You can hold your foot to the floor and it won't over rev, it won't blow up or anything else. I will freely admit it will drink fuel like a drunkin sailor! :B

dodge guy wrote:
I agree with you guys.

I have ordered the tuner....on sale now BTW.

If it doesn't live up to the glowing praises, "you guys" are in trouble.
:B

I agree with you guys. But regearing and the tuner for me was more about driveability than pulling a grade at or above the speed limit. It made towing with the V-10 on flat ground much more pleasant and relaxing. Not to mention I picked up almost a full 1mpg better due to the motor being in the proper power band (gears) and it not shifting goofy at even at the slightest headwind or overpass (tuner).

Dave H M wrote:
Turtle, you are preaching to the quire. :W

Personally I do not think pulling grades with an RV should be like the pike's peak race. What are folks accomplishing by hammering it going up hill?

It has to be a mind set that I do not understand. I do not give a flip when pulling a long grade when someone blows by me with a big heat contrail coming out the pipe. How much real time is being saved?

X2
I really don't understand spending lot's of money to gain 10 minutes pulling a grade. Put the truck in a comfortable mode, sit back and enjoy the drive. As long as you are not a danger to the traffic flow, who cares how fast you are moving up a hard pull.

Depends...on the ICE's torque/hp curve....

The higher numeric diff will allow the ICE to rev HIGHER...therefore more HP delivered

Look up that V10's torque/HP curve at 4K RPM vs something like 5K RPM...the HP WILL be HIGHER

Of course...up to the point where torque drops...then HP will likewise start to drop...

But...the OP wants to stay lower in the RPM range for 'that' ICE...seemingly wanting
It to behave like a diesel... :B

WE3ZS wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
I have an 02 Excursion with the V-10 and 4.30 gears. I tow a 9200lb TT with no problems. Combined I'm about 17,500lbs. It'll do 60 with no problem up a mountain! It needs to rev! 4500 all day long!

The 4.10's are OK, but the 4.30's are the best, part of me wishes I would've went with 4.56's.

As far as the 5star tune, best money you can spend at this point. The biggest change is the shift programming. It makes a big difference in towing. No more short shifting and going into O/D too early. Worth every penny!


The diesel guys hate this but it will hang with a stock diesel of similar vintage all day long!

The OP would be happier with his V-10 if it had more gear behind it, his trailer isn't all that heavy, so if the truck is properly setup and driven correctly (get used to the sound of some revs!) it would do just fine for his usage. Yes, at the higher altitudes it (and any other NA engine) will loose some power, but again the OP's combined weight isn't that high.
Like Dodge Guy above, I too run a V-10 Excursion which serves as our dedicated tow rig for our 11,000 lb TT. I have regeared it to 4.88s but with my 35" tires it has an effective ratio of 4.39, which makes a big difference in getting the most out of these motors. With our combined weight of approx. 19,000 lbs I have held 60 MPH while fighting heavy truck traffic on I-81 up Fancy Gap in VA. We have only towed all through the Eastern states and haven't made it out West yet but that climb is one of the East's most challenging and our setup did just fine. I do run Banks headers, 5Star tunes and a performance muffler but the single biggest towing performance mod you can do for your V-10 rig is go with the deeper gears. I actually ran the 4.88s with stock sized tires for 2 full years and the thing pulled like a locomotive, better than a stock diesel of the same vintage, same as Dodge Guy's rig. The OP has the higher output 3 Valve V-10 and the much better transmission, so I am very confident that with a change to deeper gears he would be very happy with that 7,500 lb TT in the Western mountains, if he is willing to let the engine work as designed at the higher revs.

Listen to Tom! He knows what he is talking about. He is the towing guru on FTE! More in depth than I'll ever be!