What does fresh epdm look like?

LarryJM wrote:
Then ... neither he nor you read what the subject of this thread is about "what does fresh epdm look like?". Your wordy treatise on TPO cleaning also has nothing to do with the compatibility of the actual material being discussed here and acetone and as such is just noise or the proverbial "red herring".

Neither the OP nor anyone has identified his particular roof membrane as being an Alpha product nor has it been determined that it is for sure EPDM, TPO, or any other formulation, other than him referring in his original post to "icky grey / black chalk" when he cleaned the roof, which in itself suggests it is EPDM that unlike TPO does chalk naturally and when cleaned. Nonetheless, Alpha arguably supplies most roof membranes to US RV manufacturers and as detailed here the company manufactures EPDM, TPO, and what they call Alpha-Ply roof membrane. The cleaning instructions, entitled Cleaning and Maintaining the Alpha Systems Roof Membrane make no distinction between these three different roof membrane products ...

"DO NOT USE ACETONE, OR ANY OTHER PRODUCTS CONTAINING PETROLEUM DISTILLATES, ON THE ALPHA SYSTEMS ROOF MEMBRANE. USE OF THESE PRODUCTS WILL DAMAGE THE MEMBRANE."

Seems clear enough to me. :W

Hondavalk wrote:

Road Runners wrote:
Where has civility gone. One guy makes an error and then he gets poured with invective words. A mistake can be pointed out with words more civil the Hogwash and Crap.

X3 plus maybe he was thinking of a TPO roof
From Alpha's web sight


CLEANING AND MAINTAINING THE ALPHA SYSTEMS ROOF MEMBRANE

Proper care and maintenance of your Alpha Systems roof membrane is critical for years of trouble-free performance. Normal maintenance is simple, easy and requires no special materials.

Periodic cleaning (three to four times per year) is the primary maintenance required. Alpha Systems recommends using a non-abrasive household cleaner, such as Top Job or Spic-N-Span, and a medium-bristled scrub brush. Do not use any harsh or highly-abrasive products during cleaning. When finished cleaning, remember to thoroughly rinse the roof and sidewalls in order to remove any soap residue and to prevent streaking. CARE SHOULD BE EXERCISED WHEN WORKING ON TOP OF YOUR UNIT! THE ROOF MAY BECOME SLIPPERY WHEN WET.


DO NOT USE ACETONE, OR ANY OTHER PRODUCTS CONTAINING PETROLEUM DISTILLATES, ON THE ALPHA SYSTEMS ROOF MEMBRANE. USE OF THESE PRODUCTS WILL DAMAGE THE MEMBRANE.


Periodic inspection of the roof, during cleaning, is highly recommended. Check the membrane for signs of damage. Check the caulk/lap sealant used in all termination areas, and around all accessories and fasteners, for signs of cracking or voids.

The roof membrane can be cut or punctured by sharp objects. Caution should be used when placing any articles on the roof. If damage does occur, the membrane can usually be patched.

Alpha's membrane is quite inert and will resist weathering well. It does not require the periodic application of products to protect it from ultra-violet light or ozone. In fact, these products can often cause damage to the roof membrane.

If you have any questions, please contact Alpha Systems at 574-295-5206.

Then ... neither he nor you read what the subject of this thread is about "what does fresh epdm look like?". Your wordy treatise on TPO cleaning also has nothing to do with the compatibility of the actual material being discussed here and acetone and as such is just noise or the proverbial "red herring". IMO one has a DUTY to post only what they know or believe they have a reason to believe something is true and if not close to 100% sure make sure they clearly state the potential for what they are saying might not be correct. As I CORRECTLY point out acetone is not a good general cleaning agent even on EPDM roofs because of its permeability and effect on the glue that holds the EPDM to the substrate. The cleaning instructions/recommendations for EPDM just like TPO warn against using petroleum distillates, but still has nothing to do with the information that I would still in the future call HOGWASH that acetone dissolves in this case "EPDM" rubber. I never attacked the poster personally, only the BUM and MISLEADING INFORMATION that he/she presented so I'm not sure what civility has anything to do with anything here. If one doesn't know the difference is say someone saying some information is "CRAP" and "YOU ARE FULL OF CRAP" then I'm not sure there is anything to discuss further.

I'm and was when I posted "chilled" as one poster suggested and would turn that statement around when they feel the need to impose their personal feelings concerning who should chill out, take a chill pill, etc as bascially a "third party" to the discussion at hand and try impose their "posting standards" on someone else.

See there are always "two sides" to every coin;)

Larry

There are only a couple of manufacturers of rubber roof membrane in the US, Alpha Systems likely being the largest, so it only seems logical to me that one would first check any documentation that would identify just which membrane is on the trailer in question, then call that manufacturer with any concerns. FWIW, Alpha System's Cleaning Instructions specifically warn against using acetone. :W

I only used the acetone to wipe areas with a rag that I was re-caulking. The thickness of the layer of gray chalk made it almost impossible to get clean. And it all collected on the dicor sealant too which was super dirty and hard to clean. Now with extremely little elbow grease it's all squeaky clean rubber. I do so wish I had cleaned with this stuff before recaulking last summer - would have saved me hours and come out cleaner.

Anyway - the varying color around the roof is really odd. It all feels the same - not like it's obviously breaking down in one area or the other. I guess time will tell.

Road Runners wrote:
Where has civility gone. One guy makes an error and then he gets poured with invective words. A mistake can be pointed out with words more civil the Hogwash and Crap.

X3 plus maybe he was thinking of a TPO roof
From Alpha's web sight


CLEANING AND MAINTAINING THE ALPHA SYSTEMS ROOF MEMBRANE

Proper care and maintenance of your Alpha Systems roof membrane is critical for years of trouble-free performance. Normal maintenance is simple, easy and requires no special materials.

Periodic cleaning (three to four times per year) is the primary maintenance required. Alpha Systems recommends using a non-abrasive household cleaner, such as Top Job or Spic-N-Span, and a medium-bristled scrub brush. Do not use any harsh or highly-abrasive products during cleaning. When finished cleaning, remember to thoroughly rinse the roof and sidewalls in order to remove any soap residue and to prevent streaking. CARE SHOULD BE EXERCISED WHEN WORKING ON TOP OF YOUR UNIT! THE ROOF MAY BECOME SLIPPERY WHEN WET.


DO NOT USE ACETONE, OR ANY OTHER PRODUCTS CONTAINING PETROLEUM DISTILLATES, ON THE ALPHA SYSTEMS ROOF MEMBRANE. USE OF THESE PRODUCTS WILL DAMAGE THE MEMBRANE.


Periodic inspection of the roof, during cleaning, is highly recommended. Check the membrane for signs of damage. Check the caulk/lap sealant used in all termination areas, and around all accessories and fasteners, for signs of cracking or voids.

The roof membrane can be cut or punctured by sharp objects. Caution should be used when placing any articles on the roof. If damage does occur, the membrane can usually be patched.

Alpha's membrane is quite inert and will resist weathering well. It does not require the periodic application of products to protect it from ultra-violet light or ozone. In fact, these products can often cause damage to the roof membrane.

If you have any questions, please contact Alpha Systems at 574-295-5206.

I'm with Roadrunner. Chill people.

Where has civility gone. One guy makes an error and then he gets poured with invective words. A mistake can be pointed out with words more civil the Hogwash and Crap.

74alex wrote:
The Dicor roof material is EPDM rubber and white when new. You mentioned the use of acetone on your roof. Acetone will dissolve rubber. It is unfortunate that you have used this. Maybe it has dissolved part of the roof layer, and caused the discoloration.My 18 year old Dicor roof now looks greyish, with some dark spots, but is still in good shape.I wash it twice e year with water only and apply a coat of 303 Aerospace protectant.
Maybe contacting Dicor can help you out about the effect of the acetone treatment.
Alex

{ACETONE WILL DISOLVE RUBBER}

Why are you telling people this crap. As my dad always said (Put your brain in gear before you put your mouth in motion)

74alex wrote:
You mentioned the use of acetone on your roof. Acetone will dissolve rubber. It is unfortunate that you have used this. Maybe it has dissolved part of the roof layer, and caused the discoloration.
Alex

HOGWASH, where do you come up with this BAD & HIGHLY MISLEADING INFORMATION. All the compatibility charts show "A-Excellent" material compatibility for EPDM and Acetone whiich is what we are talking about here Cole-Parmer Compatibility Chart. I guess you think you know more than the experts:S :h The issue with some or all of the petro based solvents is the permeability of the EPDM allowing the solvent to release the glue holding the EPDM down. The two BEST CLEANERS for spot cleaning EPDM are Lacquer Thinner followed closely by Acetone, but you have to use them properly .... i.e. with a wet rag, rubbing quickly and wiping up any excess immediately. Never pour them directly on the EPDM and let them set for more than a couple of seconds .... in fact never pour them direcly onto EPDM to begin with.

With all that said there is no real reason to clean an EPDM roof to begin with except to miniminze the dreaded "black streaks", but there are far more effective solutions (as close to 100% as possible) to prevent that issue IMO. I'm in the anti roof cleaning camp and feel that it in fact reduces the life of the roof from just the scubbing and washing away the caulky layer and natural "dirt" that can provide a little extra protection for the roof to begin with.
Larry

The Dicor roof material is EPDM rubber and white when new. You mentioned the use of acetone on your roof. Acetone will dissolve rubber. It is unfortunate that you have used this. Maybe it has dissolved part of the roof layer, and caused the discoloration.My 18 year old Dicor roof now looks greyish, with some dark spots, but is still in good shape.I wash it twice e year with water only and apply a coat of 303 Aerospace protectant.
Maybe contacting Dicor can help you out about the effect of the acetone treatment.
Alex