What is the weak link for Chevy max tow ratings?

Viperpoker wrote:
Just think how great it would be if they had just focused on making all of the parts more reliable and higher quality on this truck, instead of useless/crazy/unneeded performance improvements. It would be awesome!!

If that is what you get out of what am saying then I am afraid you aren't fully understanding what I am saying and/or how developing a product works.

Cummins12V98 wrote:
"So you see, the more time, money and manpower they devote to these pissing matches, the more it likely hurts the rest of the truck."

In YOUR opinion.

Possibly a bad water pump depending on what brand was installed on your Cummins engine. Is that RAM's fault?

Bottom line there were some bad pumps and they replaced them.

I was just using the water pump as one simple example of many. Would you like me to use another recall out of the 10 my brother and I got? Just got a new one last week that they says they don't have a solution for.

ExxWhy wrote:


This is way out of my knowledge base. You are telling me that larger medium duty class trucks (4500/5500/6500) have stricter emission standards than consumer grade (2500/3500) pickup trucks? Makes no sense to me, but if that is what comes from the government it wouldn't shock me. Can you enlighten us on that?

I completely disagree with the last sentence. More capable does not equate to less reliable, just the opposite IMO.

Yes, medium duty class 4500/5500/6500 and cab & chassis 3500's have different emissions certifications than a complete pick up truck. Complete pickups go through a chassis dyno certification and incomplete vehicles go through a engine dyno certification for emissions that also differ based on the GVWR of the truck. They are de-rated based on the on the limit of each GVWR and/or purposely derated by the manufacturer to sell a higher power package.

That is the reason why a Ram 3500 CTD pickup has a max of 385/950, but the 3500 cab & chassis max's out at 325/750. Both have different emissions certifications dictating their power levels.

Viperpoker wrote:
Just think how great it would be if they had just focused on making all of the parts more reliable and higher quality on this truck, instead of useless/crazy/unneeded performance improvements. It would be awesome!!

I bet the water pump would have been world class!!

Just think how great it would be if they had just focused on making all of the parts more reliable and higher quality on this truck, instead of useless/crazy/unneeded performance improvements. It would be awesome!!

ShinerBock wrote:
Engines are derated to meet emissions and are also sandbagged a little for future "updates". Has nothing to do with reliability.

So you see, the more time, money and manpower they devote to these pissing matches, the more it likely hurts the rest of the truck.

This is way out of my knowledge base. You are telling me that larger medium duty class trucks (4500/5500/6500) have stricter emission standards than consumer grade (2500/3500) pickup trucks? Makes no sense to me, but if that is what comes from the government it wouldn't shock me. Can you enlighten us on that?

I completely disagree with the last sentence. More capable does not equate to less reliable, just the opposite IMO.

"So you see, the more time, money and manpower they devote to these pissing matches, the more it likely hurts the rest of the truck."

In YOUR opinion.

Possibly a bad water pump depending on what brand was installed on your Cummins engine. Is that RAM's fault?

Bottom line there were some bad pumps and they replaced them.

ExxWhy wrote:


I'm not saying high ratings are a total cure all, but I am saying it surely has some effect on general reliability and does more than allow bragging rights. Engines are derated in larger trucks to meet some reliability goal. Same engine, different tune and less demanded of it, makes it meet the higher goal.

I don't see recalls having anything to do with that. Manufacturers don't deliberately design a part to fail so they can meet the customer again at the dealer. They designed something wrong, they made it too cheap, just plain poor workmanship, bottom line it was a mistake. If it costs the company enough, they will redesign it.

FWIW, the water pump on the Cummins engine was redesigned to accomodate the higher cooling demands of the higher rated engine. In theory, that should fix that weak point.

That is not how it works. Engines are derated to meet emissions and are also sandbagged a little for future "updates". Has nothing to do with reliability. An engine make can produce a 400 hp diesel and if at any point it detects temps are getting to high to the detriment of the engine it will simply defuel and lower power levels.

This has more to do with recalls than you might think. How it works in manufacturing is you have a lead engineer for the whole project who is being told buy his superiors what to focus on. If his superiors tell him to focus on beating the competition's tow rating then he will divert more money, manpower, and time to achieving that goal which diverts less to other areas.

Truck makes also strive to keep these trucks under a certain cost point, and they know exactly how much they can spend on the development and production of this truck before hand. If more money for the whole project is spent on parts to update the frame, then less will have to be spent elsewhere like going with a cheaper water pump supplier over a better one from another supplier to stay in budget. They had to switch to the better supplier with the recall.

So you see, the more time, money and manpower they devote to these pissing matches, the more it likely hurts the rest of the truck.

blt2ski wrote:
Ian,
I didnot have any overheating issues with my 05 dually, same with Larry. Maybe neither of us is a lead foot? or trying to pull at unreasonable speeds etc.
If you want to talk about overheaters, try the 6.5td from 95-97 with the auto trans. I had some issues with my NV4500, but not near the temps issues as those with the auto trans. I solved most of that issue with the post 97 cooling mods.
Of course this is not to say some or all of these did not have issues.....with the HP/torque a lot of the new motors are producing, an excellent cooling system is a must.

Marty

You can add my parents 05 Duramax to the list of non overheating issue. They had that truck for 10 years and pulled some pretty good mountains with their 5ver.

Although I'm not dismissing it as a problem in certain conditions, I think there's a bit of internet amplification going on here!

ShinerBock wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

ExxWhy wrote:
It could be argued that by increasing the tow rating to a number most customers will never use actually increases the reliability of the truck while towing at the lesser numbers that most people do need. If you think about how to make something more reliable, the first thing that comes to my mind is make it stronger.

HMMMMM, sounds like common sense. How dare you!!!

Okay. Then can either of you explain how increasing the tow ratings fixes the water pump recall, the steering linkage recall, the SCR recall, and all the other recalls on these trucks?

Also, how does going from a 30k tow rated frame to a 35k tow rated frame make it more reliable for those that tow less than 20k?

I'm not saying high ratings are a total cure all, but I am saying it surely has some effect on general reliability and does more than allow bragging rights. Engines are derated in larger trucks to meet some reliability goal. Same engine, different tune and less demanded of it, makes it meet the higher goal.

I don't see recalls having anything to do with that. Manufacturers don't deliberately design a part to fail so they can meet the customer again at the dealer. They designed something wrong, they made it too cheap, just plain poor workmanship, bottom line it was a mistake. If it costs the company enough, they will redesign it.

FWIW, the water pump on the Cummins engine was redesigned to accomodate the higher cooling demands of the higher rated engine. In theory, that should fix that weak point.