The max tow ratings for a F350 Ford are about 32,000. For a Ram 3500 they are about 31,000. For a Silverado 3500,they are about 23,000. That is 4.5 tons less than a Ford and 4 tons less than a Ram. What is causing such a low rating? Is it engine, transmission, differential, frame, brakes, suspension? Or a combination of some of those? I have a 42 foot fifth wheel, thinking about a 44 foot toy hauler that would be heavily loaded, and looking to get a new truck, and Chevy is not even an option. Just trying to understand what is causing them to be so far behind. Have no brand loyalty, have owned all three in the past, just looking for most capability at best price.

It's more of how GM rates their truck. It will handle it just as good as the other two. I don't think GM offers a 4:10 gear is probably why. If it were me and I wanted a Chevy , I would get it and not think twice about it. ;)

i believe all three use the same ratings system now.The new standard lays out minimum performance standards for acceleration, braking and handling. There are parking brake tests and grade-launch standards. The trailers used to conduct all such tests are spelled out specifically, and they must be ballasted and connected in a specific way.And J2807 sets a minimum speed for the truck-trailer combination when climbing a specific mountain grade — the so-called "Davis Dam" grade that climbs eastward out of the Colorado River valley at Laughlin, Nevada. Cooling systems must bear the strain of the 11-mile trip when the outside temperature is at least 100 degrees and the air-conditioner is set to full blast.

Viperpoker wrote:i believe all three use the same ratings system now.The new standard lays out minimum performance standards for acceleration, braking and handling. There are parking brake tests and grade-launch standards. The trailers used to conduct all such tests are spelled out specifically, and they must be ballasted and connected in a specific way.And J2807 sets a minimum speed for the truck-trailer combination when climbing a specific mountain grade — the so-called "Davis Dam" grade that climbs eastward out of the Colorado River valley at Laughlin, Nevada. Cooling systems must bear the strain of the 11-mile trip when the outside temperature is at least 100 degrees and the air-conditioner is set to full blast.Minimum is the key word. GM has stated that they rate their trucks to the performance level that their customers have come to expect. That happens to be a higher level than the j standard. This can be seen in the many tests where GM smokes the competition at their rating. What are you getting that exceeds GMs rating?I have been looking at big THs as well, and haven’t seen any that a GM could not tow.

Because GM is not in a "best in class" pissing match like Ram and Ford are and I commend them for it. Just because your truck can tow 30k at the minimum 35 mph using J2807 doesn't mean that is what you have to rate your truck for. Using a higher minimum speed limit like 55 mph will make your tow rating lower than the J2807 standard, but it is a more reasonable speed at which most would prefer to tow and many will respect that. It is only the fan boys that are concerned with "best in class" and care about the highest tow ratings possible even though they themselves would never tow that much. This is coming from a Ram owner who also prefers a Ford over GM.

What is the weak link for Chevy max tow ratings?

191 Replies

Cummins12V98
Explorer III
Mar 17, 2018
Me Again wrote:
Allison 1000 transmission!

YUP! The mighty Allison is at the end of its power limitations. All three are SAE rated. If GM could compete with RAM n Ford they sure as HE!! Would.

Engine just had big HP n TQ increases so that is not the issue.
Viperpoker
Explorer
Mar 17, 2018
ShinerBock wrote:
Viperpoker wrote:

Try this link

https://www.ramtrucks.com/en/pdf/141550_DRP12US_HD_eBrochure.pdf

Or this one

https://www.ramtrucks.com/assets/towing_guide/pdf/2013_RAM.3500.Towing.Specs.pdf

Hmm, your link does show 30k tow rating, but the Ram bodybuilder's engineers guide that we got from Ram for or medium duty up-fitters says differently. I will have to send this to our fleet manager to get with the Ram rep about this the next time he speaks with her.

Oh, and next time please post links. It is a PITA to copy and paste that much from a phone. I had to wait till I got home.

Were you looking at pickups or cab and chassis?
ksss
Explorer
Mar 17, 2018
I don't think you can fault GM for bragging about superior tow ratings while they had them around 2011. Why wouldn't you?

I am GM guy, unlikely I will ever buy anything else. I regularly tow at or in excess of the GM rating and the pickup does very well. That said, this has never made any sense to me either. I watched a GM rep on YouTube state that the market above the GM tow ratings is very small (this thread states 3%, I cant remember but it was small) and so they choose not to compete. I was so pissed when I saw that I wanted to throw my lap top. They are willing to compete in the HP/torque war obviously. I agree if I am pulling a modest weight of say 18K, even though the GM truck is within the posted 23K, on paper the Ford or Ram at 30K looks like the better option, all else being equal. The point is, they may be right perhaps most don't tow around the 30K mark, but by comparison the other two look like stronger trucks. They are not stronger which has been proven on the numerous Ike runs, but a lot sales are won and lost in the spec sheet. I wish they would at least get to 28-29k. If your "not going to compete" at least make it close.

The last thing I will say is, since when is not competing in a significant category even an option. You sell HD pickups, and tow capacity is a major factor in a purchasing decisions in this weight class, and you just opt out? 7K under the rest of the field? If the rational is a small % use that kind of tow capacity, well what percent need 445 hp and 900 plus foot/pounds of torque? Probably that same 3%, yet there is no issue in being class leading or nearly so in other significant areas.

I am confident in the durability of the trucks and pulling up and down mnt passes with huge loads gives me nothing but confidence in the trucks. They handle the weight and they have been very reliable, but this under rating the tow ratings is just plain stupid. I would like to know the real reason for it.
demiles
Explorer
Mar 16, 2018
Doing some quick calculations it appears that Chevrolet maybe actually doing the tow ratings the right way on the 3500 drw and are not taking the free pass the SAE test allows. That is performing SAE handling testing while simultaneously achieving GCWR, TV GVWR, and TV GRAWR. By doing this it prevents manufactures from using a minimum TV GVW and bumping up the GCWR way high. A provision in the standard allows manufactures to prioritize GCWR first, then GVWR followed by GRAWR and are not required to meet all three at the same time. This one thing is probably the biggest flaw in the j2807 standard that keeps it from being useful for consumers.
ShinerBock
Explorer
Mar 16, 2018
Viperpoker wrote:

Try this link

https://www.ramtrucks.com/en/pdf/141550_DRP12US_HD_eBrochure.pdf

Or this one

https://www.ramtrucks.com/assets/towing_guide/pdf/2013_RAM.3500.Towing.Specs.pdf

Hmm, your link does show 30k tow rating, but the Ram bodybuilder's engineers guide that we got from Ram for or medium duty up-fitters says differently. I will have to send this to our fleet manager to get with the Ram rep about this the next time he speaks with her.

Oh, and next time please post links. It is a PITA to copy and paste that much from a phone. I had to wait till I got home.
Huntindog
Explorer
Mar 16, 2018
Viperpoker wrote:
Huntindog wrote:
2011, I know that year well. I have one of the first dually cc DAs made. The j standard was just coming out. GM and Ford both said they would release their numbers GM did They were posted on this forum for a short time Ford backed out stating that they would wait for a major redesign
GM numbers actually increased a little for some variations of the HDs and none decreased. GMs 1/2 tons took a major hit
When GM realized that Ford was now ahead in the advertised (fake) numbers,they retracted their numbers.
This may have a lot to do with not wanting to play the numbers game anymore.

Right. My point was that this is a standard benchmark that all three are using now. All else being equal, the Chevy is down from only having a 3:73 gear. I think everyone agrees that a lower gear can tow more, and for some reason Chevy does not match the gear ratio of Ford and Ram.
I don’t think the whys are important
It is all speculation
Your guess is as good as mine
I think it is several things
No matter
The GM does a spectacular job up to its rating
There are VERY few RVs made that will exceed them
Viperpoker
Explorer
Mar 16, 2018
ShinerBock wrote:
Viperpoker wrote:

Wrong. Ram was rated at 30,000 in 2013. They had many changes to get there.

Not according to Ram. 2015 was the first year they could officially tow 30k according to their bodybuilders data sheets.

Ram bodybuilder

Try this link

https://www.ramtrucks.com/en/pdf/141550_DRP12US_HD_eBrochure.pdf

Or this one

https://www.ramtrucks.com/assets/towing_guide/pdf/2013_RAM.3500.Towing.Specs.pdf
ShinerBock
Explorer
Mar 16, 2018
Viperpoker wrote:

Wrong. Ram was rated at 30,000 in 2013. They had many changes to get there.

Not according to Ram. 2015 was the first year they could officially tow 30k according to their bodybuilders data sheets.

Ram bodybuilder
Viperpoker
Explorer
Mar 16, 2018
ShinerBock wrote:
Viperpoker wrote:

Ram added an Aisin transmission to make their numbers go up. The engine also has increased from 800 to 930 ft lbs of torque.

Ram has had the Aisin and the 385hp/865lb-ft Cummins in 2013 until 2016 when they increased it to 900lb-ft. From 2013 to 2015 it was the same frame, trans, and engines yet miraculously it was able to tow over 30k all of the sudden in 2015 when they went J2807 compliant even though nothing changed on the truck from 2014-2015.

Wrong. Ram was rated at 30,000 in 2013. They had many changes to get there.

It never hurts to have a lot of pull, particularly when you’re talking pickup trucks. So for 2013, Ram has upgraded its 2500 and 3500 Heavy Duty pickups, the latter trumping the competition by quite a margin. The 3500 Heavy Duty has had its trailer capacity bumped up to 30,000 pounds compared it its nearest competitor’s 23,100 pounds. What’s more, it’s GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating), which includes the weight of the truck, trailer, and the load being carried, has been upped to 37,600 pounds compared to the other guys’ 30,500. Ram 2500s have had their capacities also increased to 18,350 and 25,000 pounds, leading the 3/4-ton class. Also new for 2013 are a factory-integrated fifth-wheel and gooseneck hitch mount, a 17,000-pound Class V hitch with 1800 pounds of tongue weight, and electronic stability control for dual-rear-wheel layouts. Very handy will be a camera mounted in the high-mounted stoplight to make it easier when hooking up the likes of a fifth wheel. Making all this work required a myriad of changes. The frame now is of 50,000-pound-per-square-inch, high-strength steel, which now houses a new suspension. The transfer case, transmission, and 6.7-liter Cummins turbo-diesel all were upgraded, the latter now with 385 hp and 850 lb-ft of torque and—important to budget-conscious haulers—15,000-mile oil change intervals.

Also improved to match the higher ratings were the cooling system, driveshafts, and U-joints. A new active-air-intake system allows for extreme heat or high altitudes and both engine- and transmission-cooling systems have dual radiators/coolers.
larry_barnhart
Explorer
Mar 16, 2018
When we bought our 98 dodge 2500 the rear ratio did not change the GCVWR. Why I never understood. chevman

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What is the weak link for Chevy max tow ratings?

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