What is the weak link for Chevy max tow ratings?

ShinerBock wrote:

blt2ski wrote:
It might not be just speed too. The minimum grade % a rig can go up before stalling out is 12%. Not sure how many 12+% grades I'll go up today, but that grade is 3% lower than a class 8 uses for OTR work. 8% less than minimum for LDT work. 30% less than rigs potentially used off road, like dump and cement trucks.
The ratings are horribly low from my perspective.
OR, their needs to be more than one tow rating for a given rig, depending upon usage. OR a way for one to know how to derate the max rating, based on ones personal performance standards. Which is what a tow rating is. A performance standard.

Marty

I know Ford actually does this (or at least used to before J2807) and it was in the owners manual or towing guide where most owners do not look. The max towing rating would decrease a certain percentage depending elevation and the frontal area size of what you were towing.

Although what I find funny is that I have seen many claim BS on lower towing numbers back before J2807 when each manufacture had their own standard. Now they are posting higher numbers with the J2807 standard and everyone thinks it is fine. In many cases, J2807 lowered the standards just so they can post higher numbers in advertising.

Chevy, at least for the 1500, had lower numbers when they adopted the standard.

2015 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 2014(Pre SAE J2807) 2015(SAE J2807)
Regular cab 2WD 4.3L V-6 6.5' box 3.43 axle 6,400 lbs. 6,100 lbs.
Double cab 2WD 5.3L V-8 6.5' box 3.08 axle 6,900 lbs. 6,500 lbs.
Crew cab 2WD 5.3L V-8 5.7' box 3.42 axle 9,800 lbs. 9,400 lbs.
Regular cab 4x4 4.3L V-6 6.5' box 3.42 axle 7,600 lbs. 7,600 lbs.
Double cab 4x4 5.3L V-8 6.5' box 3.42 axle 9,600 lbs. 9,200 lbs.
Crew cab 4x4 5.3L V-8 5.7' box 3.73 axle 11,200 lbs. 10,800 lbs.
2015 GMC Sierra 1500 2014(Pre SAE J2807) 2015(SAE J2807)
Double cab 4x4 5.3L V-8 6' 6" box 3.42 axle 9,600 lbs. 9,200 lbs.
Crew cab 4x4 5.3L V-8 5' 8" box 3.73 axle 11,200 lbs. 10,800 lbs.

ShinerBock wrote:

ScottG wrote:
Both Ford and Ram went through major redesigns of their frames to achieve the 30K towing number. I suspect GM would need to do the same thing and they have said that they don't feel the market is worth it because it only accounts for 3% of HD trucks sold.

I believe both Ram and Ford had their new frames for at least a year or two before they started this pissing match and coincidentally it started after they both adopted the lower standards of the J2807. GM also upgraded their frame with their new trucks, but chose not to get into the best in class war.

Here is an announcement from GM in 2011. It looks like they used to be on top of the pissing match.

General Motors has just announced the hauling capacities for the 2011 Chevrolet Silverado HD and GMC Sierra HD pickups. The new trucks can now pull up to 21,700 pounds in fifth-wheel configuration and lug around 6,635 pounds worth of payload, thereby making them the new best-in class champions. The traditional tow rating sits at 17,000 pounds. What did GM change to give the trucks their new credentials? The company says that it extensively tested the trucks' systems, including the engine, transmission and brakes at the new gross combined vehicle weight and found that the thing could handle the abuse.

Both the Silverado HD and the Sierra HD now come with tougher bed rails, though. GM specified a new high-strength steel that can take more of a beating compared to last year's pieces. The new tow ratings best the next closest competitor, the 2011 Ford F-350, by 1,000 pounds on the conventional towing front and a more modest 100 pounds under fifth-wheel conditions.

ShinerBock wrote:

ScottG wrote:
Both Ford and Ram went through major redesigns of their frames to achieve the 30K towing number. I suspect GM would need to do the same thing and they have said that they don't feel the market is worth it because it only accounts for 3% of HD trucks sold.

I believe both Ram and Ford had their new frames for at least a year or two before they started this pissing match and coincidentally it started after they both adopted the lower standards of the J2807. GM also upgraded their frame with their new trucks, but chose not to get into the best in class war.

Shiner, do you have any documented evidence that GM secretly has higher capabilities, but due to some brilliant marketing scheme they won’t tell anyone? If GM’s numbers mean nothing, I should just get one of their 1500’s rated at 9,000 lbs, because it is obviously underrated so they don’t get in a pissing match. GM doesn’t want to seem like they are competing with Ford and Dodge, so they purposefully misstate their capabilities on the extreme low side. Seriously???

Also a 6 cylinder Camaro will outrun a Shelby Mustang, but it is a secret that GM keeps so it doesn’t look like they are in a pissing match.

Where do you get your information? Did the Chevy sales rep tell you this?

Also, why is GM in a best of class war on every other level of truck? Looks like their SRW has a higher rating than Ram. Aren’t they afraid this will start a pissing contest?

ScottG wrote:
Both Ford and Ram went through major redesigns of their frames to achieve the 30K towing number. I suspect GM would need to do the same thing and they have said that they don't feel the market is worth it because it only accounts for 3% of HD trucks sold.

I believe both Ram and Ford had their new frames for at least a year or two before they started this pissing match and coincidentally it started after they both adopted the lower standards of the J2807. GM also upgraded their frame with their new trucks, but chose not to get into the best in class war.

Viperpoker wrote:

ScottG wrote:
Both Ford and Ram went through major redesigns of their frames to achieve the 30K towing number. I suspect GM would need to do the same thing and they have said that they don't feel the market is worth it because it only accounts for 3% of HD trucks sold.

that makes sense, i thought i had read that before. so the frame in combination with the gearing probably explains the difference.

Yeah, they made so many changes on both of those trucks during their respective redesigns that it's hard to know if that was all that was needed. I suspect there are differences to cooling, brakes and who knows what else.

ScottG wrote:
Both Ford and Ram went through major redesigns of their frames to achieve the 30K towing number. I suspect GM would need to do the same thing and they have said that they don't feel the market is worth it because it only accounts for 3% of HD trucks sold.

that makes sense, i thought i had read that before. so the frame in combination with the gearing probably explains the difference.

Viperpoker wrote:
there is a reason ram rates the 68rfe 8,000 less than the aisin.

I'm not saying it is, but it could be marketing that influences at least part of that difference.

Both Ford and Ram went through major redesigns of their frames to achieve the 30K towing number. I suspect GM would need to do the same thing and they have said that they don't feel the market is worth it because it only accounts for 3% of HD trucks sold.

Huntindog wrote:

Groover wrote:
I have never seen a pickup builder discuss what the week link is but the last time I checked Allison does only rate the transmission for 300hp and 30,000lbs. I know that is the week link on my motorhome. I like to think that Allison is very conservative but then again I can't convince myself to test that theory. I hate that I have a rig built on a Freightliner chassis with commercial truck underpinnings hamstrung by an underrated transmission.

GM is wayyy over 300hp.

Maybe GM is just ignoring the rating. If you can find a higher number for the Allison 1000 I would love to see it.

2003silverado wrote:
It might just be that GM only offers 3.73 gears where as you can get a 4.10 option from Ram and even a 4.30 option (I believe) from ford. Seems ford even used to offer 4.88's.

Also, maybe since they knew they were going to be coming out with the class 4 and up trucks real soon, they want to sell those for heavy work and not have them competing with the 3500 line.

thanks, that makes sense, no 4:10. that probably accounts for half of the difference. that is the type of factual answer i was looking for, not the numbers don’t matter or gm doesn’t want to brag. without a 4:10 they will not be able to tow as much. for example, a ram is rated about 21k with a 3:42, 26k with a 3:73, and 31k with a 4:10. changing those gears makes a big difference.