Forum Discussion

Compass's avatar
Compass
Explorer
Mar 07, 2014

would it be worth neutering my F450 from a 4.88 to a 4.10

I'm new here and looking for some expert advice... Thinking about neutering my F450 from a 4.88 ring & pinion gear set to a 4.10 for better mileage as oppose to downsizing to a smaller truck. We downsized to a smaller 5th wheel with a GVRW of only 12,410. L like the trucks current suspension and 19.5 wheels and I'm thinking it's a lot less expensive to change out the gears than to purchase another truck. Any advice would be most appreciated.

Thanks
  • Compass, a lot of this advice is a shot in the dark without more information about your 450.

    It could have a Dana 80, it could have a Dana 110. It could have a 7.3, a 6.0, or a 6.4. It could have a 4R100 or a 5R110W. The axle, engine, and transmission could be material factors in the decision and in the recommendations people make.

    If you posted your model year, and any other information you know about your F450, it might bring you more specific recommendations.

    Speaking as someone with 4.88's also, in an F-550, here are some observations I've made over the last dozen or so years with this combination:

    TIRES:

    Upgrading to larger tires to make the final drive taller is a bit more difficult and expensive to do "right" than it is for 16" tires, as a previous poster suggested.

    The next size up for the 19.5 is a 245/70R19.5 (up from the factory 225). The problem with mounting 245's is that the stock F-450 wheels are not wide enough to meet the minimum rim width specification for 245s. Our OEM wheels (both steel and aluminum versions) are only 6" wide, and a 245 requires 6.75" minimum, with 7" being preferred for proper tire shoulder support when cornering.

    New wheels are very expensive, and used wheels, or take offs, are almost impossible to find, especially if the F450 is older than 2005, where an 8x225mm bolt pattern is used instead of the current 10x225 bolt pattern. Since NO F450 pickup or chassis cab came with 6.75" wheels, one most turn to the F53 stripped motorhome chassis (of only certain GVWRS... as not all had the same wheels) to try and find wide enough wheels with the additional offset to maintain dually tire spacing.

    So while all this is doable, it will not be without considerable effort or expense. Probably both. To reshoe a 7 wheel set of 19.5 tires will run about $2,500 for good rubber and an unknown amount for the wheels.

    AXLES

    Lot's of F450 chassis cabs came with the Dana 80 rear axle, which might be a little less expensive to regear than a Dana 110. If you have the F450 pickup from 2008-10, then you likely have the Dana 110.


    TRANSMISSIONS

    When comparing rear gear ratio's, lots of folks just look at the final drive ratio of the transmission... which is typically around .71 more or less in overdrive. But poster CarringB makes an excellent point to consider the intermediate gear shift points, especially in an automatic transmission where the driver does not always choose every single gear. Too tall of a final axle ratio can turn a 4 speed transmission into a 3 usable speed transmission when towing, but even harder to determine without study is the amount of leg each trans gear will have with a given rear gear ratio. This is a really good point by carringB, and should be well considered before making any change.

    Sometimes, fuel economy goes DOWN with a change to a taller axle gear, due to reduced economy when climbing in lower transmission gears when the next gear up now lugs with the new axle ratio.

    ENGINE

    If your truck has a 6.4L or 6.0L diesel engine, some consideration should be given to the value and expected life of the truck before costly engine and fuel system repairs (to the tune of 5 figures) might need to be made to keep the truck on the road. You mentioned considering either a gear change or a new truck.... and depending on the engine in your current truck, you might be dollars ahead changing trucks.

    On the other hand, if your current truck has the V10 gas engine or the 7.3L diesel engine, then you will likely be many dollars ahead by keeping your current truck and going ahead with fixing it to your liking.


    SPEED

    That's what it I determined it boiled down to in my case. If I kept the 4.88's and kept my speed at or below 55 mph, then I could keep my money in the bank rather than throw it at the rear end of the truck.
    There just isn't enough benefit going 65 mph to justify the expense in a gear change. I can accomplish the same economy by keeping my speed in check, which keeps the noise level down too.
  • smkettner wrote:
    4.10 and under is diesel gears. Save the 4.56+ for gassers.


    My '08 Ram 4500 with the 6.7L Cummins had 4.88 gears. I actually did wish I could lock out 1st while empty, but other than that it never felt over-geared.
  • Hi,

    You could "cheat" and move to an even taller tire. That would be cost effective at the next change. For example I moved from a 225/75R16 to 235/85R16 (had to buy new wheels to do so as I'm an E-450). That had a similar effect to dropping down the ratios--and I gained a couple of percent in fuel economy.
  • Turtle n Peeps wrote:
    Compass wrote:
    I'm new here and looking for some expert advice... Thinking about neutering my F450 from a 4.88 ring & pinion gear set to a 4.10 for better mileage as oppose to downsizing to a smaller truck. We downsized to a smaller 5th wheel with a GVRW of only 12,410. L like the trucks current suspension and 19.5 wheels and I'm thinking it's a lot less expensive to change out the gears than to purchase another truck. Any advice would be most appreciated.

    Thanks


    What engine, 6.4? If so, your not going to gain much. If you delete the 6.4 you can gain some pretty good mileage. But then you won't be able to reg your truck because you live in Ca.

    Good point. 4.88 has a PSD 6.4 written all over it.
    Pulling machine if it's running, bad fuel mileage is normal even with the higher gears like the F250's. Yep no deletes in Cali unless you like to " switch hit" every other year or so.
    Doesn't sound cost effective to me.
  • My 2003 F450 7.3PSD 4.88 blew its rear end at 110k miles. I have a srong suspicion that high a ratio contributed to its demise.
  • Compass wrote:
    I'm new here and looking for some expert advice... Thinking about neutering my F450 from a 4.88 ring & pinion gear set to a 4.10 for better mileage as oppose to downsizing to a smaller truck. We downsized to a smaller 5th wheel with a GVRW of only 12,410. L like the trucks current suspension and 19.5 wheels and I'm thinking it's a lot less expensive to change out the gears than to purchase another truck. Any advice would be most appreciated.

    Thanks


    What engine, 6.4? If so, your not going to gain much. If you delete the 6.4 you can gain some pretty good mileage. But then you won't be able to reg your truck because you live in Ca.
  • Since you have an F450 you no doubt you have an S110 Dana rear end which will run you $1000-$1200 just for the gears plus installation. If you have a 4x4 then you will need to do the front. Dana 60 gears will run around $300 plus installation. You will probably end up paying around $3000+ for the change. Maybe the change will net you 2 add'l MPGs? Is it worth $3000? You'll have to do the math based on your current situation.
  • Do you have the E4OD or the TorqueShift?

    If you have the E4OD, 4.10 is too tall IMO for those tires. If you have the TorquShift that it is a decent combination. With 4.10's and the E4OD, there will probably be some times when 1st and 2nd gear feel too far apart.

    4.30 may be a better combination even for the TorqueShift, considering the weight of your trailer.