X-chock vs. Jack Stabilizers
I want to stop the rocking around on my 30ft Cougar and the two products I can find to help eliminate that are X-chocks and jacks stabilizer cross bars. I know both help, but which one helps the most?...
Forum Discussion
Nfrank:
Since this thread is for you the following post is directed at you and I realize it's going to irritate some folks, but hopefully the arguments, etc. won't get too far out of hand since I will say upfront the following are purely MY OPINIONS and VIEWS and are not subject for discussion, etc. here and now, but I'm not in control of that so I apologize in advance. Also, I admit up front for some scarcasim and drama in some of my statements, but I just couldn't resist in this case so again another apology for those who I will offend.
I about fell out of my seat when I saw the pics posted above by wrvond and they highlight almost all the concerns and illustrate better than words that I have with these as I call them Bandaid fixes and while no body that has spend their hard earned $$$ on these types of things are going to change their mind or admit (that's against basic human nature) what they have now have is even more of a nightmare than what they started with this post of mine is directed only at you since you haven't IMO made any mistakes yet and might make a little more rational vs. emotion decision on what you want to do. Please read the following and be looking at especially the second pic that wrvond posted and consider the following points while looking at that picture.
1. Notice how flimsy those scissor jacks are ... thinly stamped metal, with SIX pivot points PER JACK all of which are going to have play in them or you wouldn't be able to move them. Also note the orientation and how narrow the footprint is front to back of the scissor jacks foot which w/o those stab bars provides almost ZERO resistance to front to back movement. Note the footprint of those screw jack stands I showed in my prior post and decide for yourself which has the better ground to support footprint stability in all planes at the ground contact. You also now have 3 THREADED interfaces to rust/corrode PER JACK that remain under the trailer vs. my ZERO number. Even in the plane perpendicular to that there is still slop/play since the threaded portion of the scissor jack goes thru TWO threaded connections and there has to be clearances in that interface or you wouldn't be able to move the scissor's jack. While my screw jacks stands DO HAVE ONE threaded interface the play in that is basically taken out since it will be under considerable force directly along the axis of the screw since it will be supporting the trailer at the frame.
2. Now look at the entire system in that second pic including those 4 stab bars especially those 4 BOLTS that I assume need to be tightened and loosened each time the scissor jacks are adjusted/retracted/extended to extend or shorten those stab bars ... not to mention lets hope none of those bolts fall out when traveling and that you have spares readily available for replacements. Especially notice that now you not only have to use that ever popular and often mentioned power screwdriver to use on those fancy scissor jacks and find that extension (hopefully you haven't forgotten either and the battery on the power screwdriver isn't dead or you have that ultra light weight spare battery and/or zero weight and zero space taken up battey charger for that power screwdriver battery ... remember the downside of not wanting to waste space for those pesty screw jacks stands of mine) and not only use it but also have either a wrench or socket for those EXTRA TWO BOLTS on the stab bars for each jack. And then folks complain about the extra room and weight that my nesting ALUMINUM Jack stands are, but fail to mention their power screw driver, extensions, wrench/socket for those bolts, battery and maybe the battery charger for that screwdriver. See where I'm going and why I made statements about how folks will defend the basic undefensible when their hard earned $$$$ has already been spent .... VERY FEW will admit their mistakes and especially admit they might have wasted some of that hard earned $$$$. I'm particularly amused when folks don't want to mess with "ALL THAT HASSLE" of bending down and putting my recommended jack stands under the trailer frame, but fail to mention how they are going to instead now be tightening and loosen those TWO stab bar bolts oriented in the plane of the scissors jacks that are now several feet more under the trailer and POINTING DOWN TOWARDS THE GROUND NO LESS being more convenient to tighten/loosen each time you mess with the scissor jacks than HEAVEN FORBID bending down and placing my screw jack stand under the trailer frame ... GASP. That second picture showing how far under the trailer from the bumper and in towards the middle of the trailer inside the frame those end two stab bar bolts are that are now pointing down at the ground and just how one tightens and loosens those up being so much more convenient that placing my one jack stand at that same location ONCE for each setup/tear down. I would assume those bolts would need to be loosened to raise the jacks and then tightened for travel to prevent them working loose and falling out and then loosend to extend and then tighten to secure when you set up. Thus for each move I see the need to get to that bolt and tighten or loosen it 4 TIMES per use. You decide which is easier and more accessible and please go thru your mind setting up the system shown in those pics and storing it and how convenient and what tools are needed and just how much HARDWARE is now now there that will rust/corrode over time vs what I had recommended and how to use it. Please note while you do have to place my jack stands under the frame and hand tighten them up initially that is the ONLY TIME you have to do any bending/adjusting since to remove you just use the tongue jack and like I do my awning rod to pull the jack stands out when removing them which eliminates me even bending down anywhere near them.
Well I think this poor horse is not only dead from all the beating we have inflicted upon it, but is starting to turn to fertilizer from all the pounding and I think I have made the points I wanted to as best as I could and in closing will say do what you want since it's your money ... I look at my job is to give you the best advice and information that I think is out there ... what you do with it is your and yours alone business.
Larry
Since this thread is for you the following post is directed at you and I realize it's going to irritate some folks, but hopefully the arguments, etc. won't get too far out of hand since I will say upfront the following are purely MY OPINIONS and VIEWS and are not subject for discussion, etc. here and now, but I'm not in control of that so I apologize in advance. Also, I admit up front for some scarcasim and drama in some of my statements, but I just couldn't resist in this case so again another apology for those who I will offend.
I about fell out of my seat when I saw the pics posted above by wrvond and they highlight almost all the concerns and illustrate better than words that I have with these as I call them Bandaid fixes and while no body that has spend their hard earned $$$ on these types of things are going to change their mind or admit (that's against basic human nature) what they have now have is even more of a nightmare than what they started with this post of mine is directed only at you since you haven't IMO made any mistakes yet and might make a little more rational vs. emotion decision on what you want to do. Please read the following and be looking at especially the second pic that wrvond posted and consider the following points while looking at that picture.
1. Notice how flimsy those scissor jacks are ... thinly stamped metal, with SIX pivot points PER JACK all of which are going to have play in them or you wouldn't be able to move them. Also note the orientation and how narrow the footprint is front to back of the scissor jacks foot which w/o those stab bars provides almost ZERO resistance to front to back movement. Note the footprint of those screw jack stands I showed in my prior post and decide for yourself which has the better ground to support footprint stability in all planes at the ground contact. You also now have 3 THREADED interfaces to rust/corrode PER JACK that remain under the trailer vs. my ZERO number. Even in the plane perpendicular to that there is still slop/play since the threaded portion of the scissor jack goes thru TWO threaded connections and there has to be clearances in that interface or you wouldn't be able to move the scissor's jack. While my screw jacks stands DO HAVE ONE threaded interface the play in that is basically taken out since it will be under considerable force directly along the axis of the screw since it will be supporting the trailer at the frame.
2. Now look at the entire system in that second pic including those 4 stab bars especially those 4 BOLTS that I assume need to be tightened and loosened each time the scissor jacks are adjusted/retracted/extended to extend or shorten those stab bars ... not to mention lets hope none of those bolts fall out when traveling and that you have spares readily available for replacements. Especially notice that now you not only have to use that ever popular and often mentioned power screwdriver to use on those fancy scissor jacks and find that extension (hopefully you haven't forgotten either and the battery on the power screwdriver isn't dead or you have that ultra light weight spare battery and/or zero weight and zero space taken up battey charger for that power screwdriver battery ... remember the downside of not wanting to waste space for those pesty screw jacks stands of mine) and not only use it but also have either a wrench or socket for those EXTRA TWO BOLTS on the stab bars for each jack. And then folks complain about the extra room and weight that my nesting ALUMINUM Jack stands are, but fail to mention their power screw driver, extensions, wrench/socket for those bolts, battery and maybe the battery charger for that screwdriver. See where I'm going and why I made statements about how folks will defend the basic undefensible when their hard earned $$$$ has already been spent .... VERY FEW will admit their mistakes and especially admit they might have wasted some of that hard earned $$$$. I'm particularly amused when folks don't want to mess with "ALL THAT HASSLE" of bending down and putting my recommended jack stands under the trailer frame, but fail to mention how they are going to instead now be tightening and loosen those TWO stab bar bolts oriented in the plane of the scissors jacks that are now several feet more under the trailer and POINTING DOWN TOWARDS THE GROUND NO LESS being more convenient to tighten/loosen each time you mess with the scissor jacks than HEAVEN FORBID bending down and placing my screw jack stand under the trailer frame ... GASP. That second picture showing how far under the trailer from the bumper and in towards the middle of the trailer inside the frame those end two stab bar bolts are that are now pointing down at the ground and just how one tightens and loosens those up being so much more convenient that placing my one jack stand at that same location ONCE for each setup/tear down. I would assume those bolts would need to be loosened to raise the jacks and then tightened for travel to prevent them working loose and falling out and then loosend to extend and then tighten to secure when you set up. Thus for each move I see the need to get to that bolt and tighten or loosen it 4 TIMES per use. You decide which is easier and more accessible and please go thru your mind setting up the system shown in those pics and storing it and how convenient and what tools are needed and just how much HARDWARE is now now there that will rust/corrode over time vs what I had recommended and how to use it. Please note while you do have to place my jack stands under the frame and hand tighten them up initially that is the ONLY TIME you have to do any bending/adjusting since to remove you just use the tongue jack and like I do my awning rod to pull the jack stands out when removing them which eliminates me even bending down anywhere near them.
Well I think this poor horse is not only dead from all the beating we have inflicted upon it, but is starting to turn to fertilizer from all the pounding and I think I have made the points I wanted to as best as I could and in closing will say do what you want since it's your money ... I look at my job is to give you the best advice and information that I think is out there ... what you do with it is your and yours alone business.
Larry
