You can tow it with a car

BurbMan wrote:



This issue was raised before here on the forum by a member who visited Europe on vacation. How can caravans towed by cars with 2 or 3 % tongue weight not sway? The RVs are better designed and better built.

Exactly the point I tried to make earlier.

RobertRyan wrote:

This European Caravan is 26ft long and has a max weight of 4,400lb.

The problem with towing is not with the car it is with the RV here in the US. We have to have 12%+ tongue weight and that it just too heavy for a car's suspension to handle, so we are forced to used trucks and SUVs.

Look at the trailer in this picture and see how far forward the axles are.....the trailer is balanced to 5% or less of tongue weight, same in Europe. The cars can pull the weight of the trailer, they just can't carry the weight of a heavy tongue. If the RV was designed to towed by a car, ie with a manageable tongue weight, then we could do it. RVs made here in North America are very tongue heavy and therefore cannot be towed by cars.

This issue was raised before here on the forum by a member who visited Europe on vacation. How can caravans towed by cars with 2 or 3 % tongue weight not sway? The RVs are better designed and better built.

RobertRyan wrote:

The Dung Beetles wrote:
Ahhhhh! Like that concept a lot! We are going to hit the Seattle RV show in Feb 6-9. I hope they have some display units there with this concept. Hub would love to get a better look at that. I'm a super cautious/wary driver but... bad things can and do happen fast. My hope once I retire is to be RVing at least 3 -4 months out of the year. It never hurts to have as many safety features as possible when on the open roads. Thanks!

What you describe applies to so many retirees new to RVing.

Well...we are "new" to luxury RVing, but not RVing. I guess you could call us highly seasoned "boondockers". We have spent years camping in remote, back country areas. Our campers were not self contained, and the only people we saw were each other, or a few people who ventured in with us. It was peace and quiet personified. We always hauled in horses (even had one horse designated as the "fishing horse"). She was a very reliable mare who carried in alllll the fly fishing gear including two partially inflated float tubes. She was quite the sight.

It was quite the education for us to go to true RVing by today's standards. In the beginning we struggled to adjust to sooooo many people packed in such a small area. We have encountered some flaming idiots, but we have also met some wonderful free spirited people and we have made great friendships along our way. We met some "full time RVers" on one of our short outings that were from the E. coast of the USA. We live on the far W. coast of the USA. We had a great time with them, and in passing we mentioned where we would be the following month (and where we would be parked). They backtracked from their original plans and met us a month later at a large kite festival. We had another great round of fun with them. I believe we will stay in contact with these people for the rest of our lives. THAT part of the new RVing has been extremely enjoyable for us! Soo many fun people out there enjoying life!!

My husband is already retired, and I hope to retire in the next year or two. Time will tell.

Maybe we'll bump into you... LOL

Safe Travels...
.

My first experience with seeing a trailer towed was a 22 foot TRAILER HOUSE (no, not a "travel trailer") being towed from Billings, MT to Hungry Horse, MT by a mid-40s Chevy half ton pickup. It did the job just fine.
when I got my first TT (15 ft, no idea what it weighed) I towed it with a 1975 Ford E150 with a 351 V8, auto tranny. Our second TT, 19 foot, again no idea what it weighed, was towed with either a Jeep Wagoneer (1970), or a 1977 Ford E150 or a 1976 Dodge W200. I had to use a WD hitch on the Wagoneer, but not on the other tow vehicles.
Yes, I have seen a lot of TTs in campgrounds (even in the mountains) towed by mid-size and full size sedans and station wagons. Also some pop-ups and Hi-LOs towed by smaller cars. It CAN be safely done!

That won't work here because the unit would have to be installed on the roof because gravity and physics are upside down in Australia and it might be 24volt.

But let's say it will work. What does it cost in terms of what the rv buyer really wants: graphic packages and glitzy window treatments???!? (multi ??? with a !? to denote internet expert).

:) :)

The Dung Beetles wrote:
Ahhhhh! Like that concept a lot! We are going to hit the Seattle RV show in Feb 6-9. I hope they have some display units there with this concept. Hub would love to get a better look at that. I'm a super cautious/wary driver but... bad things can and do happen fast. My hope once I retire is to be RVing at least 3 -4 months out of the year. It never hurts to have as many safety features as possible when on the open roads. Thanks!

What you describe applies to so many retirees new to RVing.

gmw photos wrote:
Here in north america, the sway control issue is often addressed by designing the required geometry into the weight distributing head. In effect, what we get is the ability to tailor in the varying amounts ( the correct amount ) of weight distribution ( both restoring weight to steer axle and also transferring weight to the trailer axle(s), plus we are able to control sway at the same time.

I don't know what the percentages are industry wide here in NA, but I would guess that a majority of folks here use some form of weight distribution and mechanical sway control. Also, a fairly large percentage of tow vehicles here are body on frame construction, which lends itself readily to using a mechanical WD system. They work very well in actual practice when setup correctly.

Same as here in Australia, but you do have some advanced suspension systems that are not available in the US. The ESC is being fitted to many Caravans(Nothing to with the advanced suspensions) as an added precaution against jacking and snaking.

Robert,
The ESC looks to be an interesting way of approaching sway control. Certainly looks like it would work very well in a situation where using a weight distribution hitch is not required ( or desired ? ).

Here in north america, the sway control issue is often addressed by designing the required geometry into the weight distributing head. In effect, what we get is the ability to tailor in the varying amounts ( the correct amount ) of weight distribution ( both restoring weight to steer axle and also transferring weight to the trailer axle(s), plus we are able to control sway at the same time.

In the videos of ESC, I would assume they were comparing "no sway control at all" to "having ESC turned on". What I would really like to see, or take part in testing, would be to add into the comparison, "ESC turned off, but weight distribution/sway control engaged". then for even better measure, all of it combined ( ESC+WD/sway control ).

There is certainly room for improvement in any system that can enhance safety. From the looks of, building ESC in to a trailer is pretty simple and straight forward. All that would need to be added for one of our trailers would be a power wire to it.

I don't know what the percentages are industry wide here in NA, but I would guess that a majority of folks here use some form of weight distribution and mechanical sway control. Also, a fairly large percentage of tow vehicles here are body on frame construction, which lends itself readily to using a mechanical WD system. They work very well in actual practice when setup correctly.

Thanks again for posting yet more of the interesting caravans you have in your country. Always good to look at how others engineer their solutions.

Francesca Knowles wrote:
I didn't realize it was an Aussie invention- isn't it also used in Europe? Thought I read about it on a Caravan site based in GB.

In any case, wherever it came from, it's brilliant. Brains instead of brawn- that's the ticket!

Francesca it is I think a German company but they have a development centre here in Melbourne for their products. It is a local innovation, that is being pushed world wide.

RobertRyan wrote:

Francesca Knowles wrote:
From what I can see of the underside of the trailer in the O.P. (below), it looks like the trailer may have Al-Ko's very ingenious braking system that does practically all the work- and even the thinking- of stopping the trailer.

When equipped with "ATC", it even automatically controls sway by brake application. Demonstration at this link
I think this to be a much more efficient sway control method than the cumbersome hardware so many depend on in North American built trailers.

Francesca it was developed by Al Ko's development facility in Melbourne, that is why a lot of local Caravans are being fitted with it.Notice the braking and avoidance ability of the car towed lightweight sedan.
Al Ko Australian Research Centre stability control

I didn't realize it was an Aussie invention- isn't it also used in Europe? Thought I read about it on a Caravan site based in GB.

In any case, wherever it came from, it's brilliant. Brains instead of brawn- that's the ticket!