Algonquin Provincial Park - power access

[BigDaddyHfx]

Was checking out Algonquin park and it seems to say that the power pedestals are 30 meters from the site. Is this right? Do people really need nearly 100 feet of power cable and extensions?

[Little_Kopit]

I don't for one millionth of second think that there is no boondocking in Ontario.

But you're saying anyone who does boondock could get some kind of a fat fine, right?

:C

[JaxDad]

In an epic CYA move the Province ended all but day use, read "no overnight parking", a number of years ago on any land you can drive to.

Even in iconic destinations like Algonquin Park there's really no where you can park overnight except a campground.

In fact you can no longer even fly a float plan into a Provincial Park and land on a lake without prior written permission.

[Little_Kopit]

Assuming former provincial park land continues to be crown land, may we expand/broaden the topic to include paying to camp on crown land.

As I recall from my former residence in ON in the 70s, one pays to park one's rig, (including cars, pick up trucks or other stand alone vehicles), on crown land beyond two nights.

If I'm right that would mean one could park, ie dry camp on the crown land of former provincial parks through some arrangement and the province would collect some revenue from our doing that.

Enlighten me. If you don't know, please say how to find out.

:C

[JaxDad]

shum02 wrote:
They are still open for day use.

I can never understand it..........everyone "whines" about fiscal responsibility for the various ministries but when the .gov actually practices it, it's wrong?

Day use, a days drive from 85% of the population. Yeah, that'll work.

Fiscal responsibility?

You mean like auctioning off all of the MTO's trucks and equipment for pennies on the dollar, paying millions in severance pay to employees they terminated, then hiring all those trucks and people back at 30% more than they used to cost as assets and employees?

Or handing all the Land Registry and Corporations records, paid for with tax dollars, to private companies who then SELL them back to the public for dozens of times what it used to cost the public, but the Province gets a commission?

Or all those nifty "Service Ontario" locations, actually privately owned and operated 'franchises' that just make a percentage of sales? You ever wonder why your formerly $28 / year license plate is now $98 / year? Guess what that extra $70 / year gets you? Nothing!

But the politicians had a LOT of supporters and friends.

There's a reason they called it the "No Sense Revolution".

[RangerJay]

shum02 wrote:

RangerJay wrote:
It is unfortunate that any Parks were closed at all.

Ontario seems to have forgotten that its Parks were originally set aside for environmental and social purposes - purposes that included Protection, Recreation, Heritage Appreciation and Tourism - nowhere in that mandate was Revenue Generation .....


Jay

They are still open for day use.

I can never understand it..........everyone "whines" about fiscal responsibility for the various ministries but when the .gov actually practices it, it's wrong? Send an email to the Premier, maybe she'll reconsider - NOT!

Your are right about one thing - closure of Parks is not an Ontario Parks issue - it is a Government of Ontario issue.

The Parks system has done an exemplary job of exercising fiscal responsibility for a very long time: Volunteers, Friends of ...., Campground Host/Hostesses, Community Partnerships, Self-registration, shortened operating seasons, reduced services, establishment as a Special Revenue Retention Agency, development of Park Stores and Fee Increases - quite a whack of initiatives and I'm sure there are more.

The failure of fiscal responsibility lies with the Province on a much higher level - one regrettable consequence of that failure has been the closure of Parks.

And as for "open for day use" - sorry - that doesn't cut it.


Jay

[shum02]

RangerJay wrote:
It is unfortunate that any Parks were closed at all.

Ontario seems to have forgotten that its Parks were originally set aside for environmental and social purposes - purposes that included Protection, Recreation, Heritage Appreciation and Tourism - nowhere in that mandate was Revenue Generation .....


Jay

They are still open for day use.

I can never understand it..........everyone "whines" about fiscal responsibility for the various ministries but when the .gov actually practices it, it's wrong? Send an email to the Premier, maybe she'll reconsider - NOT!

[RangerJay]

Yes - it is sad - even angering - that Obatanga was closed.

Our relationship with Obatanga goes back to the late 60's - before the campground was expanded, before the installation of electrical pedestals, comfort station, amphitheatre and even before a pumphouse was put in. Seemed a fairly comfortably used campground at the time and through the years it always remained one of our favourite Parks even though we visited it only intermittently (Neys, Rossport Campground and Agawa Campground are tough competition - agree with your comments on White Lake).

Obatanga seems to have suffered a classic case of over-development - of "if you build it they will come" - but they didn't - heck of a hard lesson ..... having said that .... there had to have been other ways of dealing with its issues rather than shutting the entire campground down.


Jay

[almcc]

RangerJay wrote:
It is unfortunate that any Parks were closed at all.

Ontario seems to have forgotten that its Parks were originally set aside for environmental and social purposes - purposes that included Protection, Recreation, Heritage Appreciation and Tourism - nowhere in that mandate was Revenue Generation .....


Jay

Not sure about the others but we watched Obatanga do a slow death over the decades that we used it, we saw the amphitheater return to the forest and other services there slowly disappear. The electrical sites that they installed there were put in "unfortunate" locations and weren't used. Not sure why the occupancy rate was low, it was a better provincial park than White Lake PP up the road, maybe the fishing at White Lake is better and explains the higher occupancy there.

[RangerJay]

It is unfortunate that any Parks were closed at all.

Ontario seems to have forgotten that its Parks were originally set aside for environmental and social purposes - purposes that included Protection, Recreation, Heritage Appreciation and Tourism - nowhere in that mandate was Revenue Generation .....


Jay

[atreis]

shum02 wrote:

atreis wrote:
Mildly confused here... Has Ontario re-opened the parks they closed a couple years ago? Obatanga, Rene Brunelle, a handful of others?

Thanks.

Northern Parks closed due to very low attendance.

Northern Ontario Parks

They kept them open for many years beforehand. "Closed due to low attendance" is just another way to say that they were closed because they were too expensive to operate relative to the revenue they generated. (If it wasn't about revenue, they could have just decreased the number of sites available to better match demand.)

To say that Ontario hasn't ever closed parks is disingenuous. I'm not saying they shouldn't have closed them - not my place to judge that - just that there have been statements of financial conditions of the PPs in Ontario made here that haven't been accurate.

BTW, IMO, Ontario has some of the nicest parks anywhere. The rates are significantly higher than most SPs, but I happily pay.

[JaxDad]

.

[JaxDad]

shum02 wrote:

JaxDad wrote:

shum02 wrote:
Must have worked because while U.S. State parks where shutting down campgrounds during the "economic downturn" the largest park system in North America kept all it's campgrounds open.

There's a reason Ontario is (give or take) $287 BILLION dollars in debt.

To put that in perspective, that's more than all the other Provinces debts COMBINED.

But all the parks are still open..........

You misunderstand I think. Ontario Parks receive some of, if not the lowest subsidies from tax dollars in North America. They did not stay open because of tax money but because they actually get next to none. Less than 15% per camp site as apposed to close to 45% for some U.S Parks.

Yes, that's what I said earlier, they had to economically stand on their own. Politicians salaries, benefits and pensions meant more than things like Provincial Parks.

The spending to buy votes, instead of supporting parks created a record debt.

BTW, lots of parks closed, even recently the Leslie Frost Center, one of Canada's first dedicated Ranger training centers and a hugely popular educational center.

Provincial Parks closed to camping.

[shum02]

atreis wrote:
Mildly confused here... Has Ontario re-opened the parks they closed a couple years ago? Obatanga, Rene Brunelle, a handful of others?

Thanks.

Northern Parks closed due to very low attendance.

Northern Ontario Parks

[shum02]

JaxDad wrote:

shum02 wrote:
Must have worked because while U.S. State parks where shutting down campgrounds during the "economic downturn" the largest park system in North America kept all it's campgrounds open.

There's a reason Ontario is (give or take) $287 BILLION dollars in debt.

To put that in perspective, that's more than all the other Provinces debts COMBINED.

But all the parks are still open..........

You misunderstand I think. Ontario Parks receive some of, if not the lowest subsidies from tax dollars in North America. They did not stay open because of tax money but because they actually get next to none. Less than 15% per camp site as apposed to close to 45% for some U.S Parks.

[atreis]

Mildly confused here... Has Ontario re-opened the parks they closed a couple years ago? Obatanga, Rene Brunelle, a handful of others?

Thanks.