Computer maps

[briansue]

On another recent forum topic "Vagabundos del mar travel buddies calendar" we got into a discussion about maps after I posted some screen shot photos of some maps. I think that was going more than a little off topic so I think maybe we should start a new topic about maps for use in computers.

I don't want to dictate here but what I am trying to get at is ways to use OFFLINE maps in COMPUTERS. NOT ONLINE. I also recognize devices such as GARMIN as well as handheld devices such as cell phones. I use a GARMIN and I use an ANDROID. But I want to start this topic as being just for OFFLINE maps that can be used in a COMPUTER - sort of a limited and specific topic if we can stay on topic.

I am no expert. I make no claims. I have been using Microsoft Streets & Trips (S&T) for many years very successfully. But as many of you know MS stopped revising S&T after the 2013 issue so it is becoming outdated as far as new roads being added.

S&T was/is a great program because it has a lot of features we can use to create routes and save them as well as being able to add Points of Interest (POI) to the map. We can create a route and save it for future use.

A website www.laptopgpsworld.com was a great place to learn about various different map programs made specifically for those of us who want to use our computers to research roads and routes we might use for our travels. So far there does not seem to be a lot to be learned these days about some of the new FREE OFFLINE maps that are available out there.

I do realize a lot of people like GOOGLE MAPS and I do to. But I find no way to really use it to full advantage OFFLINE.

I noted in the other thread that I have tried using the new Microsoft Maps which comes builtin to the new WINDOWS 10 and can also be downloaded for MS. They use to use HERE maps but changed that at some point. I have tried HERE maps but never got the hang of it. I also noted Navigator by MapFactor which is also a FREE download. I think many of these newer maps get their base maps from OPEN STREET MAPS.

In the case of the MS MAPS as well as NAVIGATOR it is possible to download FREE maps of almost anywhere in the world. We can download the entire USA or just the maps of the states we might be traveling in - depending on when we need the maps - we can have smaller downloads or one big download of the entire US. We can do the same with Canada - province by province or all of Canada. We can also download all of Mexico.

The problem I am having so far with these maps is how to create a route with numerous stops along the way. I use this function to force the route I want to take instead of just a start and end point that uses the program to create the route. I want detailed step by step and stop by stop control of the route I want to take.

So I am hoping there are a few people out there who know how to use OFFLINE COMPUTER maps and can help by posting here about how to use them.

I would like to learn how to put in WAYPOINTS or stops to be able to control a route. I would also like to be able to save any route a plan so I can reference it and bring it up later. It was mentioned in the other thread that there are ways to save a route using GOOGLE MAPS and to make that route available to others so I am wondering if there are other OFFLINE maps out there where we can plan a route with our stops and then somehow share that information with others. We could do that with S&T but I have not yet found a way to do it with newer maps.

I am going to try to keep working on this and learning and posting what I learn. Hopefully there are readers of this forum out there who know a lot more about this than I do and can post some how-to tutorials to help the rest of us to have better ways to find our way around the world.

Once again - there are many times and many places we go where we do not have internet access so it is very important to us to be able to map without the need for the internet - that is of course once we have downloaded maps and have them saved in our computer for later use. I am hoping this topic will be of use to all.

[bighatnohorse]

In Step 1, (see image) BaseCamp will arrange the way points in alphabetical order.
In Step 3, BaseCamp keeps them alphabetical when you create your route.
Right click on your newly create Route and select OPEN.



In the next image, look at the Green Cross.
Above and below the Green Cross are up and down arrow icons.
Select a waypoint, then click the up/down arrow to change the waypoint order.
Note the small "clock" icon below the Green Cross and arrows. That will set departure/arrival times.
After you move your waypoints to your desired order, click the "Recalculate" button at the bottom of the screen.
The Green Cross is so that you can add more waypoints.

I've probably forgotten something, but keep chipping away at it.
And remember that Google Maps can be useful when it's available.

[briansue]

Here is BaseCamp again with the Lat Lon shown on the waypoints. I figure out a way to use Copy & Paste to change the location name to the Lat Lon numbers. This could help some readers to find exactly where these points are so they can find them on their own maps - maybe.


Click For Full-Size Image.

[briansue]

So far BaseCamp continues to be a real struggle for me. I am used to the ease and simplicity of S&T. But I am getting there. I was finally able to get waypoints figured out but it took me awhile. And I am still not sure how to get to the list and to sort and refine the list to get the waypoints in the correct order. I am sure there are more things that can be done with BaseCamp that I haven't been able to come close to figuring out. I will continue to try to work on it. So here is the same route as the posts above but this time using BaseCamp. Took a while to force the route. But it can be done. I think there is a way to assign the Lat Lon to each waypoint but I haven't figure out how yet. I also want to figure out how to number the waypoints to make sure they show up in the correct order. This comes from the same maps I have in my Garmin but it has a different appearance. I think maybe I will try to figure out how to put in the waypoints on the Garmin while it is connected to the computer to see if the waypoints show up on the map that way. Please Microsoft bring back Streets & Trips.



Click For Full-Size Image.

[briansue]

(because you already know where you're going).

Not always - but as my Yogi quote previously says - you might wind up somewhere else.

Thanks for the tutorial. I will try to find time to delve further into BaseCamp with the Garmin connected.

Once I do sort of know where I am going by putting in a search point I do try to let the computer find a route. But if I don't like the route I can then start to refine it by putting in waypoints to force the route to go the way I want. I also use this if someone tells me about a route they use and I want to clarify the exact route with all the turns before attempting to drive it.

Another use of "pinpoint" waypoints is when we need to find our way around a town that has very narrow streets. The computer may take us through town and we want to force it to take the preferred ring road - bypass - periferico - loop – libramiento - circunvalacion.

This can also be used to add stops to a long route. An example is halfway (more or less) between Laredo and San Miguel de Allende is a very large Pemex travel plaza in the middle of the highway - restaurants - hotel - truck parking - etc. I can show this on my route and if asked I can post the route showing the Lat Lon of this location for others to use. (NOTE - we do want to 100% support RV parks but in Mexico that is not always an option so we do sometimes use a Pemex for a one night stopover).

Here is another example of a route we have done a few times. This is a town we pass through between Patzcuaro and Valle de Juarez – we can be going east or west – this shows east to west. The town is very tight and RVs do not want to go through town. Navigation programs do not know this so the route must be forced by adding waypoints. I learned this the hard way by going through town. Then I was told the correct way to go through by someone who knew. This is the way the trucks go. So here are three different maps from computer programs all of which have limitations.

OLD S&T ROUTE – before getting to town from the east we turn up a road named CIRCUNVALACION (think circumnavigate or ring around) – but the route does not show there is now a new road so it takes us through town anyway. I put in waypoints to force this route.

Click For Full-Size Image.

MSN MAPS CALCULATE shows the way the computer thinks we should go but this will not work. We can see there is a new road added since the S&T map which is the way to go – to the left of the map we see the new sort of diagonal road is named CALTZONTZIN. The problem with these MSN MAPS is I can’t figure out how to put in waypoints to create the correct route.

Click For Full-Size Image.

NAVIGATOR – complex and confusing and difficult to use (so far) – but waypoints show the new and best route. Now I can share this with others to show the secret any RVer should know if they happen to want to take this route. I could add the Lat Lon numbers to these waypoints but it is time consuming so I left them out.

Click For Full-Size Image.

My Garmin is not available at the moment but later on I will try to figure out how to do this route using BaseCamp and my Garmin.

[bighatnohorse]

Long live Streets & Trips.
I still use it but I chip away at BaseCamp.

You can do exactly what you describe using the BaseCamp computer map.
In fact, your described method of placing way points might be easier than using the search function (because you already know where you're going).

First point in BaseCamp: --> Don't use "Trip Planner"

Example image:
1) Establish waypoints
You see that I have found Five waypoints shown in the bottom left window column. AND I have highlighted them by selecting them with the mouse.

2) After the waypoints were highlighted, RIGHT CLICK them to bring up
window two that shows "Create Route using selected waypoints"

3) Click "Create Route using Selected Waypoints"

Result: You will now see in the bottom left window column a new Icon in addition to your Waypoints. That new icon is your route.
(not shown in above image)

RIGHT CLICK that new icon and select OPEN
That will bring up your route planner like this: (sorry, this image was a Jeeping trail - but it will show all your waypoints and you will find many options for manipulating them.


The above instructions, though sketchy, are enough for the determined and careful map user to figure out the basics of BaseCamp.

[briansue]

The way I am used to forcing a route is by looking at the map and figuring my route first - at least in part. I then click on the map location where I want to or need to put a waypoint. In most cases this must be very specific - not just the town or general area but an exact place. I often use POIs such as gas stations as waypoints. They must be on the same side of the road as my line of travel. If no POI exists I can click the map at a spot on the side of the road (on the road but off to the side) I will be traveling. That creates an exact route using a series of waypoints which forces the computer and the map and the GPS to go the way I want to go and not the way the computer calculates a route. Even with Garmin - I zoom in as tight as the device will allow and use a stylus touch for my waypoint. This does not seem difficult or complicated to me and there may be other ways to do it but I find this to be the quickest and easiest.

Note - Guanajuato is in the state of Guanajuato - both city and state. Silao, Irapuato and Penjamo are also in Guanajuato. La Piedad de Cabadas and Yurecuaro are in Michoacan. Ocotlan and Ajijic are in Jalisco.

You can use the search function to get to an area (such as Portland or Brunswick) but to map accurately you must go to the exact spot in the town or wherever it is you want to go. At least that is how I choose to do it. As I try to point out in other posts above there are now new bypass roads - perifericos - libramientos - around some of the towns we may have on our route. We may not want to go through town. We may want to bypass. So it is necessary to put in a very specific waypoint to force the route to take the bypass route - if that is what we happen to want to do.

I know that in the US you can do a search using a specific address and there is a good chance whatever you are using will be able to find that specific location - though it may not calculate the correct route to get there. In Mexico it is rare that these programs or devices can locate a specific address - which is why we try to use Lat Lon whenever possible - much more accurate.

As I said before - and in response to a question above about why we want a computer if we have a Garmin - we have a 15 inch monitor screen built into the dash of our motorhome. I do realize not a lot of RVs have this sort of thing - almost none - very rare. But we have it so we use it. We used it exclusively with MS S&T for years but since S&T has not been updated for a few years we now use a Garmin along with our computer and S&T. Why do we want both? Because they have different things built in that can help us navigate and see things on the route - one might show some things and not others while the other might show what is missing.

You might say I'm into overkill. But we are all different and I like to know where I am going. I was a trucker running 48 states in the US for almost 10 years back before computers or GPS. All I had was a Rand McNally Road Atlas - I went to too many places to have local maps of everywhere I went. I usually called the client by pay phone (no cells yet) and had them tell me how to get to their location as I wrote down specific directions. I rarely got lost or made a wrong turn. Times change and we have lots of new technology and toys available to us so I like maps and figuring routes and I like having all the tools I can find to do this. I like to think it is fun.

What I am looking for is a replacement for S&T which may not exist now - or ever. I am hoping someone will see this thread and have some good answers. I think there could be other readers out there who might be interested in better ways to do things. I just wanted to open a discussion that might lead to some answers.

[bighatnohorse]

The Garmin GPS unit needs to be attached to the computer in order to access it's full maps. However, the GPS map can and must be copied to the computer to use the maps without the GPS attached.

Okay. . .trace me a route from Portland to Brunswick.
BaseCamp will need more specific information than that. There is more than one Portland. Thus, without prior knowledge of a locality, such as what STATE, the task outlined above can be very daunting to the novice traveler.

However, I did find the first several places in Mexico with BaseCamp without putting too much time into it. Knowing what state to search would be very helpful.

[briansue]

if you have a Garmin which has the maps in it essentially offline then why do you need to transfer that to a computer?

A Garmin has maybe a 4 inch screen to a max of a 7 inch screen - my basic computer has a 15 inch screen - up to a 34 inch monitor TV we can connect to our computer. I can either see things in a larger version or have a larger playing field showing a lot more stuff. I am old and can't see a tiny little screen such as a phone these days. Very limited amount of information can be seen on a small screen. I can sit at a computer and have several screens open at once and switch back and forth from screen to screen. I can plan a route and save it for future use. I can create a route and then share it online with others as I have tried to do on this forum many times. There are countless reasons to be able to map in a computer - a longer list than I can show here. It is all a matter of whether you like to know where you are going and how the best way to get there might be - and what is along the way - clear and concise details. Every new program could have some new bells and whistles that can add to the experience of figuring out where we are going.

As Yogi would say . . . If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else.
Yogi Berra

[fulltimedaniel]

I am a bit confused...if you have a Garmin which has the maps in it essentially offline then why do you need to transfer that to a computer?

If my memory serves (and I may be mistaken here) but when I had my sailboat and crossed the pacific I bought sets of Charts and land maps for the Garmin and my memory is I had to load them via my computer???

am I missing something here?

[briansue]

Could you post a couple of places that you would like to route from/to?

Maybe I need to spend more time fooling around with BaseCamp.

We go all over Mexico so any route to anywhere. The trick is forcing the route to go the way we want and not the way the computer wants. The need for waypoints and also to be able to put Lat Lon on the waypoint to identify it.

Let's do from Guanajuato to Ajijic - but take 110 to Silao and then 45 to Irapuato - then 120D around Irapuato - 90 to Penjamo and La Piedad taking the bypasses around these towns - then 110 to Yurecuaro taking the Libramiento bypass - and 110 on to 15D - then over to Ocotlan by taking the exit from 15D north of Ocotlan going down Avenida Francisco Zarco - then across to 23 on 35 - 23 goes from Chapala to Guadalajara - when we get on 23 from 35 we have to go about 1/2 mile north to a RETORNO to head south to Chapala - a little before Chapala we take the Carretera Ajijic Chapala to bypass Chapala and go directly to Ajijic. This is something of a complex route but the computer may get some of it done correctly - curious to see how it works with a bunch of waypoints forcing the route - I can do it with S&T and Garmin but haven't tried BaseCamp. We have miles to make today so I won't have time to try any of this. We have done the above route many times in both directions and have given it to many other people. All good road and minimal tolls - probably the shortest route from A to B.

[briansue]

My CoPilot shows me how to get from my house to Mexico City.

However I have not tried it, but it shows three routes. I assume it works in Mexico.

Can you zoom in to street level detail in villages along the route?

[Ozlander]

briansue wrote:

We have been using copilot

To the best of my knowledge CoPilot still does not offer Mexico.

My CoPilot shows me how to get from my house to Mexico City.

However I have not tried it, but it shows three routes. I assume it works in Mexico.

[bighatnohorse]

briansue wrote:
Do you know what program you got that map from?

It is a screen shot from BaseCamp. It's very easy to create a route in BaseCamp.

Could you post a couple of places that you would like to route from/to?
I'd like to try them out. The more time I spend poking around with it, the better.

[briansue]

Do you know what program you got that map from?

Here are a couple more shots around San Diego de la Union. I still can't figure out how to add multiple waypoints to the MS Maps to force a route. If I say to go to San Miguel de Allende from Laredo the program will not take this road. I know it is the best route from experience - shorter - better road. I need to find a tutorial of how to use Microsoft Maps - based on HERE maps. These shots are not the most detailed possible as they can both be zoomed in a lot more.


MICROSOFT

Click For Full-Size Image.



GOOGLE

Click For Full-Size Image.

[bighatnohorse]

Found it on my laptop, off-line. There's more detail but it becomes cluttered with icons (mostly shopping carts representing shopping):