Forest Service Campground - First Come, First Serve & hosts

[WhitehouseLV]

went up the mountain to Sibley Lake Campground in Bighorn National Forest to see if there any sites available because on Recreation.gov they have a few sites that are listed as First-come, First-serve.

Most as expected were full, except for one site. The site number matched the First-come, First-serve site on Recreation.gov but the issue was that it was open tonight, but reserved tomorrow. This is supposed to be a first-come, first-serve site :h

The campground host said it was an administrative decision.

Are they allowed to do that?

Seems to me they are using their position/power to reserve a site that isn't supposed to be reservable?

Anyway, I didn't make a big scene because frankly I wasn't sure what all they're allowed to do and not allowed to do. Had it been a true first-come, first-serve site my son & would have stayed and spent a few nights with the rest of the family joining us in a few days.

[Ivylog]

We are headed West next week and stay mainly in first come CGs. Should be interesting with the reports of 30%+ increase in activity this summer.

[WhitehouseLV]

bobsallyh wrote:
We ran into a similar situation several years ago at Swan Lake, MT. FS CG. There was a 14 day limit and we always pay several days then renew since there is no refund. Well about the 3rd day there we were told that the next day it was going to be reserved and we would have go bye, byes. Not so fast my friend. There were 11 such sites and they were going to take them all. I left several of the affected people in some of those sites know what was going on. The guy across from me was semi-local and always paid the same way we do. He quickly went down and paid his days left into the Iron Ranger. He wanted to see what they were going to do about refunds. We decided to wait until the next day when they took our tag off and replaced it with a reserve tag. About noon the following day the host went around re-tagging 11 sites. After we ate lunch, we jumped in the truck and drove into the Big Fork, MT. Forest Service office. Two gals behind the counter in their best FS PR asked how we were doing. By the way everybody in that office was great! I said " we would be better if we weren't getting evicted from Swan Lake CG". With that statement they became all ears and sort of looked at one another. About that time a lady back in an office came out and said "what did I hear you say"? She asked if one of us would come back to her office, that she was going to call the concessionaire over in West Yellowstone, MT. My wife went back and talked to the concessionaire. It got a little loud and when the concessionaire said "this is the only FS CG that had first come, first serve sites" Wife immediately told here that approx. 5 miles from West Yellowstone was a total first come first serve CG that she just happen to concessionaire also . Then the back pedaling started. Concessionaire said there was nothing could be done about the situation and wife told her this wasn't the end. The gals in the office then told us there had been several other incidents regarding that concessionaire who we were familiar with. That outfit had just gotten the contract for the area FS CGs. So as we were driving back to Swan Lake just before cell service goes kaput the phone rings with a 406 area code. (MT.) I pulled off quickly, wife answered and imagine this, it was the concessionaire at West Yellowstone. "You may stay your entire time". So about an hour after we get back to Swan Lake, the host came by and pulled off all 11 tags. It wasn't the host's, it was the concessionaire trying to pull something. At the time, that outfit had CGs and trailheads from West Yellowstone to Bozeman and another bit out of Bozeman. The contract for the Swan Lake area and on up towards Eureka had come up because the previous guy retired and they got the winning bid. About a month later we were in Libby, MT. and the cell rings, again a 406 area code. It was the Billings FS. office that wanted to know what went down at Swan Lake, so the word got passed on somehow.

WOW!

[bobsallyh]

We ran into a similar situation several years ago at Swan Lake, MT. FS CG. There was a 14 day limit and we always pay several days then renew since there is no refund. Well about the 3rd day there we were told that the next day it was going to be reserved and we would have go bye, byes. Not so fast my friend. There were 11 such sites and they were going to take them all. I left several of the affected people in some of those sites know what was going on. The guy across from me was semi-local and always paid the same way we do. He quickly went down and paid his days left into the Iron Ranger. He wanted to see what they were going to do about refunds. We decided to wait until the next day when they took our tag off and replaced it with a reserve tag. About noon the following day the host went around re-tagging 11 sites. After we ate lunch, we jumped in the truck and drove into the Big Fork, MT. Forest Service office. Two gals behind the counter in their best FS PR asked how we were doing. By the way everybody in that office was great! I said " we would be better if we weren't getting evicted from Swan Lake CG". With that statement they became all ears and sort of looked at one another. About that time a lady back in an office came out and said "what did I hear you say"? She asked if one of us would come back to her office, that she was going to call the concessionaire over in West Yellowstone, MT. My wife went back and talked to the concessionaire. It got a little loud and when the concessionaire said "this is the only FS CG that had first come, first serve sites" Wife immediately told here that approx. 5 miles from West Yellowstone was a total first come first serve CG that she just happen to concessionaire also . Then the back pedaling started. Concessionaire said there was nothing could be done about the situation and wife told her this wasn't the end. The gals in the office then told us there had been several other incidents regarding that concessionaire who we were familiar with. That outfit had just gotten the contract for the area FS CGs. So as we were driving back to Swan Lake just before cell service goes kaput the phone rings with a 406 area code. (MT.) I pulled off quickly, wife answered and imagine this, it was the concessionaire at West Yellowstone. "You may stay your entire time". So about an hour after we get back to Swan Lake, the host came by and pulled off all 11 tags. It wasn't the host's, it was the concessionaire trying to pull something. At the time, that outfit had CGs and trailheads from West Yellowstone to Bozeman and another bit out of Bozeman. The contract for the Swan Lake area and on up towards Eureka had come up because the previous guy retired and they got the winning bid. About a month later we were in Libby, MT. and the cell rings, again a 406 area code. It was the Billings FS. office that wanted to know what went down at Swan Lake, so the word got passed on somehow.

[WhitehouseLV]

cptqueeg wrote:
Locals here become friends w the hosts at non-reserved FS campgrounds so they get a call when something opens. The host typically puts the lawn chairs out to hold the spot until the camper shows up.

sounds like a good approach

[WhitehouseLV]

ReneeG wrote:
I'm with the others in calling the FS office. We often go in to a campground and pick a site that's open, then check with the host on when the other more desirable sites will be open, then move. If you have a good host, they will work with you and come around to tell you that the current occupants are about to leave so you can go over and grab it.

left a message this morning with the Forest Service.

Called Recreation.gov & they didn't agree with it but pretty much said the host can do that.

The host did mention she might cancel another campers reservations because they were a no-show (It's only been 1 day) and they haven't returned her phone calls. I forget how many days she said they had the site reserved but it wasn't 1 or 2 it was like a week or longer. I told her it's a paid-for site. Lots of things can happen and I wouldn't be so quick to cancel someone's reservations. But she does have that right.


I'll still go up and check for open sites. Maybe try the kiss @ss approach. ha!

[WhitehouseLV]

IDman wrote:
The CG Host may have been holding it for a buddy of his. I've seen that before.

right?!

[cptqueeg]

Locals here become friends w the hosts at non-reserved FS campgrounds so they get a call when something opens. The host typically puts the lawn chairs out to hold the spot until the camper shows up.

[Yosemite_Sam1]

Thank your for lending your voice to this issue by calling them.

It appears that they are aware of this problem at the top with many attempts to resolve it and systems revisions.

I was at a county campgrounds which was booked solid. But when we arrived, there are just 3 campers out of 72 spots.

Yosemite is totally reserved a few seconds after they open new series of months' -- itself a new system to prevent people from multiple corralling of campsites. But still the problem persist that we stopped doing our traditional annual family camping. Then we found out Lake Tahoe is not any better which is just recently as I used to get a public campsite at short notice.

[rexlion]

Perhaps a bit of silver crossed the camp host's palm. Wouldn't be the first time for that sort of thing. 😉 But really there are a number of possible reasons. It's too bad it didn't work out better for you on this occasion.

If one were to call the main FS office, my guess is they'd say the camp host has discretion, and they support his decision.

Camp hosts and park employees have a tough job sometimes, trying to keep everyone happy. I recall one time I pulled into a state park where I had a reservation, went to the campsite and found it occupied. The people were gone sightseeing for the whole day, a relative made the reservations for them and due to miscommunication they thought they had that site for 2 more nights. No way for them to hustle back and pull out, and the CG was fully booked, so the folks at the check-in office gave me an unofficial 'campsite' that was nicer than most of the regular campsites, a spot with a fire ring (but no electric) they kept open for emergencies. They even offered me free firewood and ice to make up for the inconvenience!

[mockturtle]

That happened once when I was camping at White River, Rainier NP. Supposed to be FCFS but the best row of sites with an in-your-face view of the glacier were all 'reserved'. Power corrupts.

[ReneeG]

I'm with the others in calling the FS office. We often go in to a campground and pick a site that's open, then check with the host on when the other more desirable sites will be open, then move. If you have a good host, they will work with you and come around to tell you that the current occupants are about to leave so you can go over and grab it.

[IDman]

The CG Host may have been holding it for a buddy of his. I've seen that before.

[WhitehouseLV]

rexlion wrote:
I would have stayed the night, then watched for departing campers the next morning. Switching sites can be a bit of a hassle but it's a way to stay in the CG. If I like the CG or its location, it can be worthwhile to move. Just a possibility; doesn't work every time.

I would have but everything else was booked for the next few days so we would have had to pack up and leave the next day. I just don’t understand how a first come site can be available today but reserved tomorrow without making any other sites a first come site.

I’ll call the Forest Service tomorrow and get clarity on how things work.

[DrewE]

I can't speak from any experience, so this is just conjecture. It sounds like a question that really should be asked of someone at the National Park Service rather than here if you want an accurate answer of what is permitted/expected.

I'd imagine that there would be a little bit of latitude for hosts (or others they report to) to do this sort of thing in at least a few circumstances. For instance, they may have had to move a camper from their reserved site because that site became unusable and needed repair or maintenance. Or perhaps there was some sort of a screw-up in the reservation system that somehow resulted in a double-booking.

[rexlion]

I would have stayed the night, then watched for departing campers the next morning. Switching sites can be a bit of a hassle but it's a way to stay in the CG. If I like the CG or its location, it can be worthwhile to move. Just a possibility; doesn't work every time.