Looking to get out of Florida

[Bears_Den]

This is my first summer being retired. As I get older my tolerance for heat, humidity and rain is getting less and less. Being outside is no fun from June to Oct. As a result, I'm either going to get a Part time job or volunteer so I can get out of the house. What I'd really like to do is find a place in north Georgia, North Carolina or northern part of South Carolina to escape the Florida summers. Now I know all these places get heat waves but they don't last 6 months like in Florida. Ideally, I'd like a waterfront campsite or a site in the mountains. I must say, I would not hesitate to move out of Florida but the DW is still working and we have grandkids locally. In others words, that won't happen. If you all can provide some ideas I can look on RvParkReviews.com and if they appeal to me, I would not hesitate to drive up and check them out. Thanks for the help and remember, there is no substitute for experience.

[WTP-GC]

travelnutz wrote:


How little some people on here know but think they do!

You have language like this in almost every post you've made in this thread. We get it...you're clearly smarter than the rest of us, and know far more about nearly everything. Watch out for nose-bleeds up there where you reside.

But, since you opened the door on Flint River, let me set the record straight. It is indeed the absolute failure of local and state (and perhaps federal) governments. There is this little thing called "water analysis", that if properly performed, would have prevented the entire debacle. The water quality in the river isn't the problem unless you don't treat it. Since this thread is about Florida, let's be reminded that a large portion of Floridians drink water from GOM and Atlantic Oceans. They drink water from the Caloosahatchee and other Okeechobee runoff sources. They drink ground water that's been compromised by seawater. When they get done with the treatment process for wastewater, some people pump it deep down into the aquifer. But, the answer is treatment. Even in Flint, its well known that the treatment and analysis process broke down and was ineffective.

With the technology available these days for water treatment, it was less to do with where the water comes from than it does with how you treat it.

[travelnutz]

2012Coleman,

Perhaps it's you who needs the weedwhacker:

Read and weep!

From the newspaper:

"The Flint City Council (FCC) made a request on June 2, 2013 for the hiring of an engineering firm, h Lockwood, Andrews & Newnam, Inc.,, to study and design the switch to the Flint river.   This Flint City Council was approved by the prior Emergency Manager Edward Kurtz, and two Flint city officals  by June 26th.    They, Flint City Council, also met on June 29, 2013 for the entire day at the Flint water treatment plant with the engineers they hired to do    Then Flints own agencies recommended the temporary switch to the Flint river.     The temporary switch to the river was part of their entire plan."

DUH! June 2nd 2013, June 26th 2013, and June 29th 2013 and note that Darnell Earley wasn't even in the picture at all until September 2013 after the city council had approved the plan to get water from the Flint River.

Got it yet!

Want to ammend your very wrong post so you don't look so out of it after you wipe that dripping egg off your face?

[2012Coleman]

travelnutz wrote:
2012Coleman, who eats Sheepshead Tells me a lot about you and maybe you might like Carp too! Bugle Mouth Bass, yuck yuck!

Flint people sure like'em dem bugle mouth bass and the brown water too from the Flint River they'd voted get their water to drink so they could save a few bucks each year. Then, when they seen the results of their dumb decision, they complained and blamed others. The state did NOT make the decision to take their home/public water from the Flint River. Obviously some people don't know the whole story and blaming others for their bone headed decisions is so easy! Besides, that's on the SE side of the state not the rest of the state.

The drinking water and house water in the rest of the state including Detroit and Saginaw is very pure! How gullible can some people be anyway?

Do they have weed whackers where you live? If so, better get a big one cause your in the weeds pretty deep.

The public did not vote to switch water supply. It wasn't The Flint City Council, which had no real authority anyway because the city was being run by a state-appointed emergency manager, Darnell Earley, who hired an engineering firm to study taking water from the Flint River and sent a letter to Detroit water officials informing them of Flint's intention to use Flint River water once the Detroit contract expired.

This was an obscene failure of local and state government.

[travelnutz]

Hi Dan, you live only about 18 miles south of us and around 5 miles inland. We also get a belly laugh with some of the long cold winter claims some print. If people really want cold winters they really don't have to go to the U.P. just go to Minnesota or the Dakota's or even to Wisconsin across the big Lake Michigan from us as they get zero warming effect from the lake as their winds come from the west and northwest..

It's Usually 10 to 25 degrees F colder over there with cold fronts. Very clearly shown on the many radar/temperature maps on the Internet or the TV. They also do not get the natural A/C cooling effect from the big wide deep lake in summer either. We haven't even turned on our A/C at home or in one of the RV's in 9 years as it's never been needed or wanted around here. I really don't even know if our home A/C still works or not and don't really care. The constant cool breezes coming off the lake are simply superb all summer long as they are cooler than the sun heated air and warmer than the colder air in winter coming off the summer heated vast lake water. Beside that, it's entirely free and never needs any maintenance and so energy efficient!

How little some people on here know but think they do!

[Hammerboy]

FloridaReLoaded wrote:

travelnutz wrote:
WTP-GC,

Yes local area economics, recreational opportunities, quality of education metrics, availability of needed services, and how far the actual dollar goes in comparison to the national average does make big differences. However, many of these factors are established and determined by the makeup of the people living in those various areas. They reap what they sow might be said!

You sure didn't see me saying how great the Detroit City, Cleveland, Chicago, Philadelphia, Baltimore, or other similar places are great or nice to live at. If the shoe fits! Glad Florida makes you happy but this Thread's OP clearly states he's not happy in Florida with the intense heat and humidity and neither are most of our family members either now as they have traveled to other places north a lot and learned first hand the real difference and want out also! Florida is nothing like the Florida of the past and it's not for the better for sure! We have watched it happen since the early 1960's and seen it evolve. Neither is Detroit or so many other once nice places to live. Crowding, taxes, cost of living, crime, unreal regulations, decay and blight, devastated economies, and changed citizenry makeup have really taken their sad tolls and so obvious in much of Florida also. All combined to make life living in these places unbearable for many not even including weather or temps dynamics effects. Sooner or later, the final straw seals the deal for vacating!



When you say you have friends living in SW Michigan and they live in a "somewhat depressed" locality, I know just what locality you are referring to and it's the local resident makeup who have created, caused, and maintain their area issues but their dollar goes so much further than it would in Florida. Demographics has been a hobby of mine for more than 35 years now as I had an office in the Detroit side of the state and it used to bug me as why life was so different there than in the West Michigan area. So I spend countless hours to understand the metrics at play and why it was so. Don't even get me started on the very many areas of Florida that have the same or even much worse issues as I can name over 40 right off the top of my head all over the state of Florida.

You need to research the facts of the rest of the State of Michigan and especially the West Michigan area. Open the gook rather than just reading a couple words on its cover! For instance:

Our area schools, colleges, and universities are constantly rated by all reporting researchers and agencies to be in the top 5% of all schools in the entire USA.

Our cost of living which is the measure of how far a dollar goes is constantly for decades been in the 83% to 87% level of the national 100% average.

Services and healthcare in West Michigan and most of the state is very topnotch as rated by the gov and the various research rating agencies with also having the world renown universities for human health and of course the Medical Mile and the large medical research operations like Van Andel Institute and MSU Human Health operations plus others in the Grand Rapids area. Vast U of M in MI and Wayne State on the east side. MSU, GVSU, and Ferris State on the west side. Huge pharmaceutical corporations like Pfizer and Perrigo (just to name 2 of the 72 Pharmaceutical Corps in Michigan).

Don't even mention recreational opportunities as Michigan is tops as 4 of the 5 Great Lakes are on its shores and they are potable fresh water and UNSALTED, along with over 11,000 inland lakes, and a total of over 87,000 miles of rivers and streams and all are loaded with fish both very large and small and all eatable and very desirable. Many species of salmon, lake trout, steelhead, brown trout, white fish, walleye, bass, rainbows, lake perch, crappies/sunfish/bluegills, etc just to name a few of the many.

Vast boating all over Michigan and it's "FRESH WATER", not salted! We bought a very nice not cheap new boat and kept it in Florida for 19 years and learned to hate salt water as it ruins everything and the intense sun and humidity driven mold finishes what the salt misses. We miss our place in South Florida we had for 19 years like 2 broken arms and 2 broken legs at the same time. Now for the last 10 years know for sure that an RV with turning wheels under it is the smart way to visit Florida and only from December till April and load the RV with canned and dry foods from the north before leaving home as the $$$ savings alone will easily pay for a couple months of average CG fees. Then make those wheels rotate no later than April.

There's early 4,000 campgrounds as this is an RV forum site and so related. Yes, snowmobiling, snow skiing all over the state in deep winter and even ice fishing too. Try those in Florida! No poisonous snakes to worry about or fish or scorpions or alligators or biting ants or other things and just a tiny fraction of the bugs and termites also.

Economic opportunity? You really need to find out where the best place in America is as Grand Rapids area has been rated No 1 for years now for the best economic opportunity and why we here in the Grand Rapids Metro Area of over a million residents have a persisting unemployment rate of 3% or less.

Homes and land real estate and commercial (not the postage stamp size like is the norm in Florida) both new and resale are a fraction of the cost of most in Florida as is food too. We don't have depressed, blighted, or rundown areas anywhere within miles of where we live in West Michigan.

The community area we live at has been given "the Happiest Seaside Town In America" along with pages of other accolades. Look it up!

Just perhaps your knowledge of Michigan is extremely limited and you have so much to learn!

We have been coming to Florida every year since 1963 to visit family from Key West all the way to the Georgia/Alabama border and had owned lots of stuff and properties in Florida and learned well.

True happiness for being and living in is where everything that's important to you fits your lifestyle and wants and it varies so much. Perhaps, no place will fit 100% or meet 100% of one's wants, needs, or desires. However, facts are facts and not just opinions as they are just like a body's posterior evacuation item as everyone has one of them!

As someone who appreciates Florida, I say stay up there, we don't need you in Florida anyhow. You're just trying to justify living in the frozen tundra! Everyone see's that you're just trying to convince yourself. I've found Florida is no higher than anywhere else, cheaper than most since it has no state income tax. Three months of winter haha give me a break Michigan Winters second most brutal in the nation

I read that article a while back, got a laugh out of it. Written by some pessimistic people for sure. I too live in s.w. Michigan and could think of a hundred places worse to live during the winter. Granted the U.P. of Michigan is far colder than where I live and that is one of them:-). I'm not a cold weather person but the summers are fantastic here. If I had to pick the perfect year round place to live it would be higher elevations in east Tn, still want to see some snow and four seasons unlike in Florida. In reality someday when we retire I see us spending 2-3 months in Florida and the rest in Michigan.

Dan

[travelnutz]

2012Coleman, who eats Sheepshead Tells me a lot about you and maybe you might like Carp too! Bugle Mouth Bass, yuck yuck!

Flint people sure like'em dem bugle mouth bass and the brown water too from the Flint River they'd voted get their water to drink so they could save a few bucks each year. Then, when they seen the results of their dumb decision, they complained and blamed others. The state did NOT make the decision to take their home/public water from the Flint River. Obviously some people don't know the whole story and blaming others for their bone headed decisions is so easy! Besides, that's on the SE side of the state not the rest of the state.

The drinking water and house water in the rest of the state including Detroit and Saginaw is very pure! How gullible can some people be anyway?

[WTP-GC]

travelnutz wrote:


WTP-GC, just who do you think owns the Orlando Magic BB team and paid for much of the center they used to play in? Want more Florida sports teams actually owned by up north owners?

Florida depends on money brought in as it's lost most of it's

Huh?
What?
I don't get it...?
What are you talking about?

I guess FL has no economy, no money, no business, and no hope. Thank God we have people from Michigan to help us get along down here. Otherwise, we'd be a starving, destitute, poverty-stricken, third-world state. Good thing we have folk from Grand Rapids and other places to save us...and apparently the rest of the country too.

[FloridaReLoaded]

travelnutz wrote:
FloridaReLoaded,

"The rankings were compiled by two Midwesterners and a New England native, according to the website." A disgruntled ex-resident.

Yup, that's some REAL research all right, isn't it? We have lived here in Michigan for over 75 years and know that claims of winter time period is so bogus and far from the truth for n the entire Lower Peninsula. Are you forgetting that our area was named as "The Happiest Seaside Town In America"? Why would that happen if it was a frozen tundra or so cold??? The article is even a far stretch for the Upper Peninsula as we'd RV'd there in every month of the year during our 52 years plus of RVing. Roads are kept plowed clear, many CG's and a state park CG in the norther Upper Peninsula and been in it several times in Jan and Feb over the years and open all year, nothing ever froze in our RV's including water lines.

Also a stretch for Ontario Canada as we also RV'd there in winter to Chapleau and Wawa Ontario so many times and years for snowmobiling as there was NO snow or just a dusting in even the U.P. Using the very northern tip of the Upper Peninsula to say what the weather and temps are in the rest of the state shows how misleading the authors were with their so misguided agenda report writing. FYI, there's only approx. 300,000 (3%) of the state's 10 million people living in the entire Upper Peninsula so it's mostly uninhabited forest land and could only affect that 3% at most. Lower Michigan is far from being a frozen tundra but what would you know about that?

Far from even close to the facts! We very seldom see as low as zero F in the we hours of night in deep winter for a low even after a severe cold front passed or as high as even 90 F on this side of Lake Michigan as the lake keeps West Michigan much warmer in winter and much cooler in summer. Our average High during the coldest winter month, January, is 33.7 and the average low in the coldest month, January, is 19.3 F. More Christmas's are green with NO snow on the ground than those with snow. 3 months of winter is a max for where over 75%+ of Michigan's residents live! Just like Florida with having 80 degree average for a few after noon hours highs in January in far south Florida is offset by the average of in the 50's for the average highs in the northern end. We have been coming to all over Florida for 52 years now and had a place in South Florida for 19 years so you can't bull us.

Why is it that the people in South Florida seem to think north Florida is cold waste land too? We have heard it hundreds of times. Also that south Florida is a concrete jungle of traffic, very high prices, and insane crime and homeless coming from the Northern Florida folks so answer that! You reap what you sow! Some people are simply narrow minded and lack real experience!

We have no need to justify anything as we have extensive time spent for over 50 years in both states and know the truth unlike you! We can afford to live anywhere and therefore have gobs of choices.
 

If you would get off your high horse long enough to do a simple search you too would find that you're putting out false facts! Top Ten states that have Brutal winters Round Two!

[2012Coleman]

Bears Den wrote:
Wow, this original post really got off track. All I was looking for were some recommendations on where to go for cooler weather during the summer.

I think travelnutz wants you to move to Flint to help out with the demographics - you could get a job with the city as there is a big infrastructure project going on there at the moment.

Wow - where did all that bottled water come from? :H

BTW, I prefer Snapper Grouper, and Flounder to Walleye, perch and Sheepshead.

[travelnutz]

gemsworld,

No, the west side of Michigan is growing fast but the east side is what has dropped to much. Detroit City alone used to be approx 2 million population but now is approx 670,000. Same dynamics for Flint and Saginaw as they have the smae issues as Detroit. This While the Grand Rapids MSA/metro area grew from approx 440,000 to way over a million and is still growing fast and is a very modern clean progressive city and the growth is not from the east side of the state population moving in either. Most of those east siders left the state but yet the state's population has remained steady as so many have come from other states and regions. 2 very different worlds, the east side and the west side!

The Grand Rapids CSA is now over 1.5 million and growing fast and our lakeshore county west of the county Grand Rapids is in has grown from 98,000 to just under 300,000 presently and is still growing fast. No end in sight for the growth which has been wisely zoned and controlled to eliminate future ghetto like decay. NO postage stamp sized lots or properties can be built on and very strict building codes enforced. Sure does wonders for neighborhood decay prevention and crime rates as does the extremely low unemployment rates.

WTP-GC, just who do you think owns the Orlando Magic BB team and paid for much of the center they used to play in? Want more Florida sports teams actually owned by up north owners?

Florida depends on money brought in as it's lost most of it's

Grand Rapids local area is the home and headquarters for huge corporations like Amway, Alticor, huge Meijer, Steelcase, Herman Miller, Haworth, American Seating, Gordon foods-huge food suppliers for home and commercial and institutions, Spartan-Nash, Spectrum Health, Proirity Health, GE Avionics, Wolverine World Wide shoes with over 57 brands names including the military footwear, and now Kellogg's as they moved their headquarters from Battle Creek, just to name a few of them and are so many more. 14 fine colleges and universities from 26,000 students on down in enrollment. A very clean and mostly new downtown with skyscrapers and more being built and very happy prosperous people and families too!

[travelnutz]

FloridaReLoaded,

"The rankings were compiled by two Midwesterners and a New England native, according to the website." A disgruntled ex-resident.

Yup, that's some REAL research all right, isn't it? We have lived here in Michigan for over 75 years and know that claims of winter time period is so bogus and far from the truth for n the entire Lower Peninsula. Are you forgetting that our area was named as "The Happiest Seaside Town In America"? Why would that happen if it was a frozen tundra or so cold??? The article is even a far stretch for the Upper Peninsula as we'd RV'd there in every month of the year during our 52 years plus of RVing. Roads are kept plowed clear, many CG's and a state park CG in the norther Upper Peninsula and been in it several times in Jan and Feb over the years and open all year, nothing ever froze in our RV's including water lines.

Also a stretch for Ontario Canada as we also RV'd there in winter to Chapleau and Wawa Ontario so many times and years for snowmobiling as there was NO snow or just a dusting in even the U.P. Using the very northern tip of the Upper Peninsula to say what the weather and temps are in the rest of the state shows how misleading the authors were with their so misguided agenda report writing. FYI, there's only approx. 300,000 (3%) of the state's 10 million people living in the entire Upper Peninsula so it's mostly uninhabited forest land and could only affect that 3% at most. Lower Michigan is far from being a frozen tundra but what would you know about that?

Far from even close to the facts! We very seldom see as low as zero F in the we hours of night in deep winter for a low even after a severe cold front passed or as high as even 90 F on this side of Lake Michigan as the lake keeps West Michigan much warmer in winter and much cooler in summer. Our average High during the coldest winter month, January, is 33.7 and the average low in the coldest month, January, is 19.3 F. More Christmas's are green with NO snow on the ground than those with snow. 3 months of winter is a max for where over 75%+ of Michigan's residents live! Just like Florida with having 80 degree average for a few after noon hours highs in January in far south Florida is offset by the average of in the 50's for the average highs in the northern end. We have been coming to all over Florida for 52 years now and had a place in South Florida for 19 years so you can't bull us.

Why is it that the people in South Florida seem to think north Florida is cold waste land too? We have heard it hundreds of times. Also that south Florida is a concrete jungle of traffic, very high prices, and insane crime and homeless coming from the Northern Florida folks so answer that! You reap what you sow! Some people are simply narrow minded and lack real experience!

We have no need to justify anything as we have extensive time spent for over 50 years in both states and know the truth unlike you! We can afford to live anywhere and therefore have gobs of choices.
 

[WTP-GC]

travelnutz wrote:
WTP-GC,

Yes local area economics, recreational opportunities, quality of education metrics, availability of needed services, and how far the actual dollar goes in comparison to the national average does make big differences. However, many of these factors are established and determined by the makeup of the people living in those various areas. They reap what they sow might be said!

You sure didn't see me saying how great the Detroit City, Cleveland, Chicago, Philadelphia, Baltimore, or other similar places are great or nice to live at. If the shoe fits! Glad Florida makes you happy but this Thread's OP clearly states he's not happy in Florida with the intense heat and humidity and neither are most of our family members either now as they have traveled to other places north a lot and learned first hand the real difference and want out also! Florida is nothing like the Florida of the past and it's not for the better for sure! We have watched it happen since the early 1960's and seen it evolve. Neither is Detroit or so many other once nice places to live. Crowding, taxes, cost of living, crime, unreal regulations, decay and blight, devastated economies, and changed citizenry makeup have really taken their sad tolls and so obvious in much of Florida also. All combined to make life living in these places unbearable for many not even including weather or temps dynamics effects. Sooner or later, the final straw seals the deal for vacating!



When you say you have friends living in SW Michigan and they live in a "somewhat depressed" locality, I know just what locality you are referring to and it's the local resident makeup who have created, caused, and maintain their area issues but their dollar goes so much further than it would in Florida. Demographics has been a hobby of mine for more than 35 years now as I had an office in the Detroit side of the state and it used to bug me as why life was so different there than in the West Michigan area. So I spend countless hours to understand the metrics at play and why it was so. Don't even get me started on the very many areas of Florida that have the same or even much worse issues as I can name over 40 right off the top of my head all over the state of Florida.

You need to research the facts of the rest of the State of Michigan and especially the West Michigan area. Open the gook rather than just reading a couple words on its cover! For instance:

Our area schools, colleges, and universities are constantly rated by all reporting researchers and agencies to be in the top 5% of all schools in the entire USA.

Our cost of living which is the measure of how far a dollar goes is constantly for decades been in the 83% to 87% level of the national 100% average.

Services and healthcare in West Michigan and most of the state is very topnotch as rated by the gov and the various research rating agencies with also having the world renown universities for human health and of course the Medical Mile and the large medical research operations like Van Andel Institute and MSU Human Health operations plus others in the Grand Rapids area. Vast U of M in MI and Wayne State on the east side. MSU, GVSU, and Ferris State on the west side. Huge pharmaceutical corporations like Pfizer and Perrigo (just to name 2 of the 72 Pharmaceutical Corps in Michigan).

Don't even mention recreational opportunities as Michigan is tops as 4 of the 5 Great Lakes are on its shores and they are potable fresh water and UNSALTED, along with over 11,000 inland lakes, and a total of over 87,000 miles of rivers and streams and all are loaded with fish both very large and small and all eatable and very desirable. Many species of salmon, lake trout, steelhead, brown trout, white fish, walleye, bass, rainbows, lake perch, crappies/sunfish/bluegills, etc just to name a few of the many.

Vast boating all over Michigan and it's "FRESH WATER", not salted! We bought a very nice not cheap new boat and kept it in Florida for 19 years and learned to hate salt water as it ruins everything and the intense sun and humidity driven mold finishes what the salt misses. We miss our place in South Florida we had for 19 years like 2 broken arms and 2 broken legs at the same time. Now for the last 10 years know for sure that an RV with turning wheels under it is the smart way to visit Florida and only from December till April and load the RV with canned and dry foods from the north before leaving home as the $$$ savings alone will easily pay for a couple months of average CG fees. Then make those wheels rotate no later than April.

There's early 4,000 campgrounds as this is an RV forum site and so related. Yes, snowmobiling, snow skiing all over the state in deep winter and even ice fishing too. Try those in Florida! No poisonous snakes to worry about or fish or scorpions or alligators or biting ants or other things and just a tiny fraction of the bugs and termites also.

Economic opportunity? You really need to find out where the best place in America is as Grand Rapids area has been rated No 1 for years now for the best economic opportunity and why we here in the Grand Rapids Metro Area of over a million residents have a persisting unemployment rate of 3% or less.

Homes and land real estate and commercial (not the postage stamp size like is the norm in Florida) both new and resale are a fraction of the cost of most in Florida as is food too. We don't have depressed, blighted, or rundown areas anywhere within miles of where we live in West Michigan.

The community area we live at has been given "the Happiest Seaside Town In America" along with pages of other accolades. Look it up!

Just perhaps your knowledge of Michigan is extremely limited and you have so much to learn!

We have been coming to Florida every year since 1963 to visit family from Key West all the way to the Georgia/Alabama border and had owned lots of stuff and properties in Florida and learned well.

True happiness for being and living in is where everything that's important to you fits your lifestyle and wants and it varies so much. Perhaps, no place will fit 100% or meet 100% of one's wants, needs, or desires. However, facts are facts and not just opinions as they are just like a body's posterior evacuation item as everyone has one of them!

I'm not going to read all that because I can see that you're being far too detailed and specific for a topic that is far too broad. COL is barely able to be characterized over an entire state, and its different depending on age, health, socioeconomic factors, etc.

Just for fun, I ran some data through the common COL calculators online. Most comparably-sized places are within about 5% of each other, and many are closer to 3%. The only larger differences are yielded between small and large metro areas. But even these sources can't capture all the relevant data for each demographic...and neither shall we.

If these numbers were straight-lined (which they aren't), is it really worth it save/spend a few thousand dollars more per year by making a wholesale re-location? In my area, you find people who want to live in different counties or part of the state in order to save on taxes or real estate, but you rarely hear stories of people how say they want to move across the country because the cost of a gallon of milk is too much where they currently live.

[Community Alumni]

There must be a reason why people are moving in droves to Florida and not Michigan. BTW, I know a couple of Michigan transplants that moved to So Cal to escape the brutal winters. They will tell you Michigan is beautiful but winters are unbearable.

[FloridaReLoaded]

travelnutz wrote:
WTP-GC,

Yes local area economics, recreational opportunities, quality of education metrics, availability of needed services, and how far the actual dollar goes in comparison to the national average does make big differences. However, many of these factors are established and determined by the makeup of the people living in those various areas. They reap what they sow might be said!

You sure didn't see me saying how great the Detroit City, Cleveland, Chicago, Philadelphia, Baltimore, or other similar places are great or nice to live at. If the shoe fits! Glad Florida makes you happy but this Thread's OP clearly states he's not happy in Florida with the intense heat and humidity and neither are most of our family members either now as they have traveled to other places north a lot and learned first hand the real difference and want out also! Florida is nothing like the Florida of the past and it's not for the better for sure! We have watched it happen since the early 1960's and seen it evolve. Neither is Detroit or so many other once nice places to live. Crowding, taxes, cost of living, crime, unreal regulations, decay and blight, devastated economies, and changed citizenry makeup have really taken their sad tolls and so obvious in much of Florida also. All combined to make life living in these places unbearable for many not even including weather or temps dynamics effects. Sooner or later, the final straw seals the deal for vacating!



When you say you have friends living in SW Michigan and they live in a "somewhat depressed" locality, I know just what locality you are referring to and it's the local resident makeup who have created, caused, and maintain their area issues but their dollar goes so much further than it would in Florida. Demographics has been a hobby of mine for more than 35 years now as I had an office in the Detroit side of the state and it used to bug me as why life was so different there than in the West Michigan area. So I spend countless hours to understand the metrics at play and why it was so. Don't even get me started on the very many areas of Florida that have the same or even much worse issues as I can name over 40 right off the top of my head all over the state of Florida.

You need to research the facts of the rest of the State of Michigan and especially the West Michigan area. Open the gook rather than just reading a couple words on its cover! For instance:

Our area schools, colleges, and universities are constantly rated by all reporting researchers and agencies to be in the top 5% of all schools in the entire USA.

Our cost of living which is the measure of how far a dollar goes is constantly for decades been in the 83% to 87% level of the national 100% average.

Services and healthcare in West Michigan and most of the state is very topnotch as rated by the gov and the various research rating agencies with also having the world renown universities for human health and of course the Medical Mile and the large medical research operations like Van Andel Institute and MSU Human Health operations plus others in the Grand Rapids area. Vast U of M in MI and Wayne State on the east side. MSU, GVSU, and Ferris State on the west side. Huge pharmaceutical corporations like Pfizer and Perrigo (just to name 2 of the 72 Pharmaceutical Corps in Michigan).

Don't even mention recreational opportunities as Michigan is tops as 4 of the 5 Great Lakes are on its shores and they are potable fresh water and UNSALTED, along with over 11,000 inland lakes, and a total of over 87,000 miles of rivers and streams and all are loaded with fish both very large and small and all eatable and very desirable. Many species of salmon, lake trout, steelhead, brown trout, white fish, walleye, bass, rainbows, lake perch, crappies/sunfish/bluegills, etc just to name a few of the many.

Vast boating all over Michigan and it's "FRESH WATER", not salted! We bought a very nice not cheap new boat and kept it in Florida for 19 years and learned to hate salt water as it ruins everything and the intense sun and humidity driven mold finishes what the salt misses. We miss our place in South Florida we had for 19 years like 2 broken arms and 2 broken legs at the same time. Now for the last 10 years know for sure that an RV with turning wheels under it is the smart way to visit Florida and only from December till April and load the RV with canned and dry foods from the north before leaving home as the $$$ savings alone will easily pay for a couple months of average CG fees. Then make those wheels rotate no later than April.

There's early 4,000 campgrounds as this is an RV forum site and so related. Yes, snowmobiling, snow skiing all over the state in deep winter and even ice fishing too. Try those in Florida! No poisonous snakes to worry about or fish or scorpions or alligators or biting ants or other things and just a tiny fraction of the bugs and termites also.

Economic opportunity? You really need to find out where the best place in America is as Grand Rapids area has been rated No 1 for years now for the best economic opportunity and why we here in the Grand Rapids Metro Area of over a million residents have a persisting unemployment rate of 3% or less.

Homes and land real estate and commercial (not the postage stamp size like is the norm in Florida) both new and resale are a fraction of the cost of most in Florida as is food too. We don't have depressed, blighted, or rundown areas anywhere within miles of where we live in West Michigan.

The community area we live at has been given "the Happiest Seaside Town In America" along with pages of other accolades. Look it up!

Just perhaps your knowledge of Michigan is extremely limited and you have so much to learn!

We have been coming to Florida every year since 1963 to visit family from Key West all the way to the Georgia/Alabama border and had owned lots of stuff and properties in Florida and learned well.

True happiness for being and living in is where everything that's important to you fits your lifestyle and wants and it varies so much. Perhaps, no place will fit 100% or meet 100% of one's wants, needs, or desires. However, facts are facts and not just opinions as they are just like a body's posterior evacuation item as everyone has one of them!

As someone who appreciates Florida, I say stay up there, we don't need you in Florida anyhow. You're just trying to justify living in the frozen tundra! Everyone see's that you're just trying to convince yourself. I've found Florida is no higher than anywhere else, cheaper than most since it has no state income tax. Three months of winter haha give me a break Michigan Winters second most brutal in the nation