Passport America

[LittleRed586]

I kept seeing Passport America mentioned here on the forum so I looked it up and it seems too good to be true. I don't understand how they can do half off full hookup sites for only $44 a year.

I was looking at their campground directory and I'm amazed at how many of these sites offer full hookups for as low as $10 a night. I shot my husband the link to their directory and he was impressed but skeptical. I know that some of the sites have restrictions on how many nights, day of the week, season, etc. My husband said that we can live with that because we may only be at a place for a night or two and being full timers our schedule will be really flexible.

How long has this program been in existence? What experiences has everyone had with it? How are the facilities at parks you have stayed at?

We were originally going to stay in military campgrounds but if this program is good we might find ourselves at more private campgrounds.

[ulvik]

I am a member and look at it like this if I stay at one of their campgrounds two or three times a year it paid for my membership so to me it was a no brainer.

[Gene_Ginny]

I have only used it once, as posted in the other thread, but for me it was worth the $44. I was looking for a campground that was open for a few days after Columbus Day in Wells ME. There were only 2 that stayed open after Columbus Day and I had stayed at the other many years ago and didn't like it.

The sites in the one we used PA for were well groomed and nice. The total cost for PA and the campground I stayed at was about the same as the other without the PA cost.

[westernrvparkow]

2gypsies wrote:
If you're an Escapee member you can also get the Passport membership at a discounted rate.

Westernrvparkowner: I don't think you realize that there are many, many RVers that definitely do think that price is driving the vast majority of RVers.

Also, there are Passport parks near major attractions and they are quality parks.

I fully realize there are many price driven RVers. I seriously doubt it is the vast majority. I know I am always full and several cheaper parks in the area are not. But I feel I offer a better value due to my amenities, my location and the quality of my park. But as I have repeatedly said, if you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing no one. So I do not seek those who do want the lowest price.
I disagree with you that there are many Passport parks near major attractions. I know there are very, very few near Glacier, Yellowstone and Grand Teton. I believe the same is true of Grand Canyon, Yosemite, Disneyland and Disney World etc. The very few that do exist have restrictions that make them virtually useless to the average visitor (i.e there is one near Glacier that only accepts it in May which is usually a month before the Going to the Sun road opens. Not many RVers visit Glacier before mid June). I am sure PPA works great for many people, but it is wrong to conclude that it will be great for everyone or that any park that does not subscribe to that business model is somehow missing the boat.

[2gypsies1]

If you're an Escapee member you can also get the Passport membership at a discounted rate.

Westernrvparkowner: I don't think you realize that there are many, many RVers that definitely do think that price is driving the vast majority of RVers.

Also, there are Passport parks near major attractions and they are quality parks.

[Mich_F]

NCWriter wrote:

Mich F wrote:

GoodSamFamily wrote:
Keep in mind if you're a Good Sam Club member, that you'll save $5 when joining Passport America!

1-year membership $39.95

Is that just for first time buyers, or does it apply for renewals also ?

Renewals, too, IIRC. The member number has a GS in it.

Thanks :C

[NCWriter]

Mich F wrote:

GoodSamFamily wrote:
Keep in mind if you're a Good Sam Club member, that you'll save $5 when joining Passport America!

1-year membership $39.95

Is that just for first time buyers, or does it apply for renewals also ?

Renewals, too, IIRC. The member number has a GS in it.

[Mich_F]

GoodSamFamily wrote:
Keep in mind if you're a Good Sam Club member, that you'll save $5 when joining Passport America!

1-year membership $39.95

Is that just for first time buyers, or does it apply for renewals also ?

[GoPackGo]

Yugo cars did not fail here because of their low price. They failed because they were a piece of ****.

VW in the 50's and Honda in the next decade had cheap prices but they were well built, so they flourished.

You are right - price is not the only reason to buy. There must also be value. And if I can get the same value for half the cost, I'll sign up.

[westernrvparkow]

GoPackGo wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:

accsys wrote:

LittleRed586 wrote:
I'm a trucker with a recently minted accounting degree so the math on this subject is fascinating!

Then you should know what variable and fixed costs are. As long as the site is rented for more than the variable costs (the actual costs of the hookups - electric, water and sewer), any part of the fees over the variable costs helps cover the fixed costs and increase net income.

Less opportunity costs. Some guests in the park who would pay the full price instead get the Passport rate. If the park doesn't get substantially more guests who would only stay at the PPA rate than guests who opt for the lower only because it is available, the park actually loses revenue and income.
Simple example, park is $40 and there are 10 guests. That's $400 gross revenue. If 2 of those guests are also PPA members who would get that discount should the park be a PPA park, the park would need three additional guests (a 30 percent increase in business) to show an increase in revenue (8 full price and 5 PPA guests for $420.00). Now the park has 30 percent higher utility costs and increased labor costs all to generate $20 in gross revenues. Take out the increased utilities and the park is making almost nothing for 30 percent more work. Get less than a 30 percent increase in business, the park will lose revenue and income.
From personal experience, I highly doubt that being a PPA park can actually generate 30 percent more guests. There just aren't that many people roaming around who would only stay at a PPA park and the vast majority of the country is only served by two or three local parks. Even without PPA, most parks have a one third or better chance of capturing the local business anyway simple due to the fact that people have to stay somewhere.

It seems like the PPA parks are using the program to fill what would be empty sites. Campers go to the PPA park instead of the other 2 (your example).

So, in your example, are you saying you would rather have ONLY the 8 guests ($320) ?

Wouldn't you rather have 2 more PPA guests ($40) ? Are you saying that the additional DAILY fees wouldn't pay for the additional DAILY variable costs ?

I am saying it is not a zero sum game. If it was that simple, all the PPA parks would be overflowing with guests, and the other parks empty. I give Good Sam, AARP, returning guest and Military discounts. But you know what, if I didn't, the VAST majority of those customers will still stay with me. Price is not driving the vast majority of RVers.
Most purchases are not driven by price. As a matter of fact, low price can often dissuade customers. The lowest price hotel in town generally is struggling, while the higher priced chains are doing fine. Yugo cars died a quick death, even though they were thousands less than any other new car. If a deal sounds too good to be true, an extremely large segment of the population avoids that deal. Perception is often reality.
Dollar stores are another good example. There are deals there, to be sure, but there are also a whole lot of items for a dollar that are cheaper everywhere else. Just because PPA gives you 50% off their list price doesn't mean they are either the best deal in town, or that they are swooping in and taking all the business.
And in final answer to your question, there is a threshold for marginal profit I need to make before I am willing to take on the work, risk and responsibility of another guest. That threshold is well above $10 or $15 dollars.

[PawPaw_n_Gram]

LittleRed586 wrote:
I don't understand how they can do half off full hookup sites for only $44 a year.

Passport America is just a listing service that maintains a directory and a membership. None of the PA dues goes back to the RV park. I thing, but am not certain, that the RV park pays a little money to PA to be in their directory.

In 2015 we traveled from Texas to Fort Lauderdale / Key West to Connecticut. We volunteered with the US COE in Connecticut from Apr 15 to Oct 14. Then back at o Texas.

On those travels we stayed 8 nights at 4 Passport America parks in Florida (2), North Carolina and Tennessee. We stayed 48 nights at military base campgrounds in Texas (3 bases), Florida (2 bases), South Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Ohio, Kentucky and Tennessee.

We stayed at COE and USFS campgrounds for half price in Texas, North Carolina, Vermont Pennsylvania, West Virginia and Arkansas.

We stayed at Escapees parks in Alabama and Florida.

The only place we paid "full price" were state parks in Mississippi and Louisiana, Broward County parks near Fort Lauderdale (the most expensive places we have ever visited) and Good Sam state rally's in Georgia, New Hampshire and Maine.

We did spend a month at a commercial RV park in southwest Arkansas for a monthly rate of $450 which included electric as my dad was dying and to help with his estate after he passed.

There are a lot of ways a person / couple can save money off the posted rates.

Passport America is a very good program, but I doubt you are going to do more than a couple / three dozen nights at PA parks/ rates in a year.

[KrowNB]

When we travelled across the continent and back in 2015, we used PPA a lot. We only had reservations in a few spots (Niagara Falls, etc oviously NOT PPA) and for the rest of the time we winged it. Around noon we'd estimate where we would be by 3-4:00 or so and then either open the PPA app or book (they send you a book the first year then you pay for it if you want an update)and see what PPA campgrounds there were in that area. Sometimes there were none unless we went well out of the way; sometimes we had several choices. The App/book gives you a summary of what they have (pool, etc) but usually we were just looking for a safe place to overnight. We'd choose PPA for $15 over a Walmart. If we had to pay over $30 just to sleep, we'd sometimes avail of Walmart's generosity, though my DW isn't fussy about that.

Some people here seem to think that PPA campground are exclusively PPA. That's not true. Many cg accept many different discount cards. We've often stayed at cg where the people in the site beside us were paying the regular rate - twice what we were. Or they got $3 off for GS when PPA gave us $15 off the $30 rate (we have GS as well). We've never felt we were given lower quality sites because we were getting a discount.

On our cross countries trip in 2015 I figure we saved about $400 in total using PPA. We could have saved more had we been willing to go out of our way or if we wanted to stay further from wherever we wanted to visit. Last year, I'd estimate we saved about 2-3 times the cost of membership.

We don't always use PPA. There's a cg we like to visit nearby that doesn't accept it. But when travelling, it's the first place we check; only looking elsewhere if there is no PPA in a convenient location for us.

[GoPackGo]

westernrvparkowner wrote:

accsys wrote:

LittleRed586 wrote:
I'm a trucker with a recently minted accounting degree so the math on this subject is fascinating!

Then you should know what variable and fixed costs are. As long as the site is rented for more than the variable costs (the actual costs of the hookups - electric, water and sewer), any part of the fees over the variable costs helps cover the fixed costs and increase net income.

Less opportunity costs. Some guests in the park who would pay the full price instead get the Passport rate. If the park doesn't get substantially more guests who would only stay at the PPA rate than guests who opt for the lower only because it is available, the park actually loses revenue and income.
Simple example, park is $40 and there are 10 guests. That's $400 gross revenue. If 2 of those guests are also PPA members who would get that discount should the park be a PPA park, the park would need three additional guests (a 30 percent increase in business) to show an increase in revenue (8 full price and 5 PPA guests for $420.00). Now the park has 30 percent higher utility costs and increased labor costs all to generate $20 in gross revenues. Take out the increased utilities and the park is making almost nothing for 30 percent more work. Get less than a 30 percent increase in business, the park will lose revenue and income.
From personal experience, I highly doubt that being a PPA park can actually generate 30 percent more guests. There just aren't that many people roaming around who would only stay at a PPA park and the vast majority of the country is only served by two or three local parks. Even without PPA, most parks have a one third or better chance of capturing the local business anyway simple due to the fact that people have to stay somewhere.

It seems like the PPA parks are using the program to fill what would be empty sites. Campers go to the PPA park instead of the other 2 (your example).

So, in your example, are you saying you would rather have ONLY the 8 guests ($320) ?

Wouldn't you rather have 2 more PPA guests ($40) ? Are you saying that the additional DAILY fees wouldn't pay for the additional DAILY variable costs ?

[westernrvparkow]

Old-Biscuit wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:
Half off is only as valuable as what you could buy a similar product or service for elsewhere. If the Passport park lists the regular price as $40, you get it for $20.00. If another park is $35.00 and offers 10 percent discount for KOA, Good Sam, AARP etc. you pay $31.50, so you are saving $11.50, not really $20.00. Then if that Passport park is 5 miles further out, you have spent $3.00 or so additional in fuel. Now you are saving $8.50. If there are less amenities or the park is somewhat substandard compared to the other park, is $8.50 savings worth it? To some, yes. To others, No.
On top of that, you have to take into consideration the restrictions. Other threads on this subject have had posts where people have run into Passport parks only offering their least desirable sites at PPA rates. Some Passport parks charge extra for things like 50 Amp service.
You often do not save a net 50 percent at a Passport America park. It is really no different than going to a car dealer and having them tell you are saving $10,000 because the sticker on the car lists a "convenience group discount" for getting a car with power windows, power locks, power seats, windshield wipers and cruise control. The sticker says that purchased separately, those items would be $7000, but you are "only" paying $2000 by getting this package, therefore you are getting a $5000.00 discount. Then they add in the factory rebate of $3000 and tell you that the 2.9 percent finance rate somehow is a $2000 benefit and Viola, you have that $10,000 discount and you are still paying sticker price.

I take it you are NOT a PassPort America Affiliate CG based on your 'sales pitch'

IF I stay at a PA Affiliate RV Park then I save 50% for staying there.

I don't care what other CGs charge as I am not staying there so their rates do NOT impact my savings.

I just disagree. If Exxon is selling regular at $2.00 a gallon and Shell is $4.00 a gallon but you get a fifty percent discount for being a Shell frequent filler you didn't save $2.00 a gallon on gas. RV sites are close to being a commodity, parking in one site is pretty much the same as parking in another. Unless specific location or amenities are a big concern, the best price in the area is what you should compare your savings against. If that location or the amenities are a big concern, the odds are the PPA park isn't going to be your first choice anyway. (Most of them are not the top local park either location-wise or amenity-wise).

[westernrvparkow]

accsys wrote:

LittleRed586 wrote:
I'm a trucker with a recently minted accounting degree so the math on this subject is fascinating!

Then you should know what variable and fixed costs are. As long as the site is rented for more than the variable costs (the actual costs of the hookups - electric, water and sewer), any part of the fees over the variable costs helps cover the fixed costs and increase net income.

Less opportunity costs. Some guests in the park who would pay the full price instead get the Passport rate. If the park doesn't get substantially more guests who would only stay at the PPA rate than guests who opt for the lower only because it is available, the park actually loses revenue and income.
Simple example, park is $40 and there are 10 guests. That's $400 gross revenue. If 2 of those guests are also PPA members who would get that discount should the park be a PPA park, the park would need three additional guests (a 30 percent increase in business) to show an increase in revenue (8 full price and 5 PPA guests for $420.00). Now the park has 30 percent higher utility costs and increased labor costs all to generate $20 in gross revenues. Take out the increased utilities and the park is making almost nothing for 30 percent more work. Get less than a 30 percent increase in business, the park will lose revenue and income.
From personal experience, I highly doubt that being a PPA park can actually generate 30 percent more guests. There just aren't that many people roaming around who would only stay at a PPA park and the vast majority of the country is only served by two or three local parks. Even without PPA, most parks have a one third or better chance of capturing the local business anyway simple due to the fact that people have to stay somewhere.