Push to privatize National Park Service campgrounds

[Community Alumni]

I don't mind having concessionaires run some of the National Parks, as it is being done now. However, I don't want to see our National Parks turned into garish Disneyland-like attractions.

I realize the Park Service is drastically underfunded and in need of billions for backlogged maintenance and repairs, but I rather see fees raised gradually to cover expenses instead of having private companies destroy the character of the national parks.

From the article:

Seniors are one group that might be hit hard by the policies, if adopted.

The memo argues that the 50 percent discount for seniors should apply only to base campsite fees and encourages NPS to introduce “new senior fee blackout periods during peak season periods.”

Committee pushes National Park Service to privatize campgrounds

[Cider]

for the sake of conversation to those who grouse about seniors getting discounts o=to parks / BLM areas: do you take you Good Sam / KOA / or other program discounts when you check into a RV park, or do you, as some have stated "demand to pay full price regardless of age"?? Many seniors saved for retirement and purchased RV's to travel, visit National Parklands to enjoy the scenery and the outdoors. Taking this opportunity away by "blacken out" prime dates, or any other time is not a realistic thing to do. Granted, many retirees can well afford to pay all price and run their massive RV's, but take a step back and consider the general population who uses the parks. I, for one, use my Senior Pass when I can.

[otrfun]

Maybe I missed it, but has anybody specifically addressed the core problem: NPS's deferred maintenance backlog of 12 billion dollars? Either voters force Congress to fund the NPS backlog, or voter complacency forces the NPS to offload the backlog into the private sector. If Congress acts, we all (indirectly) pay our fair share to fund the NPS. With privatization, only those who use the park system will pay---inevitably resulting in much higher entrance and service fees. Bottom line, does America care enough about their National Parks to share the burden--fund the $12,000,000,000 backlog? If not, then privatization it is---just like NASA did with parts of it space program.

[ppine]

The NPS is motivated by aesthetics and the visitor experience.
Concessionaires are motivated by profit.
Keep campgrounds in the hands of the Park Service.
INcrease user fees to help pay for maintenance and new RV access.

[2012Coleman]

westernrvparkowner wrote:
2012coleman, You are right! No final Jeopardy glory for me.:(

:B

[time2roll]

Hopefully the NPS will retain perpetual naming rights and not have a repeat of the Yosemite fiasco.

I am OK with no discounts during peak season. In fact the fees currently for weekends could probably be doubled during peak season. Someone has to pay and best to be the users.

[westernrvparkow]

2012coleman, You are right! No final Jeopardy glory for me.:(

[ppine]

The NPS needs to increase user fees.

[2012Coleman]

westernrvparkowner wrote:

dedmiston wrote:
I had to delete some posts for words like "geezers".

Let's please keep this thread civil so I don't need to close it.

Didn't know that word needed to be added to Richard Pryor's list.

That would be George Carlin - not Richard Pryor.

dedmiston wrote:
I temporarily closed the thread. One of the primary trolls is gone from the forum and I'm reopening it again.

That is welcome news.

[steveh27]

DrewE wrote:

steveh27 wrote:
My experience dealt with Long Pine cg in the everglades. I had stayed there twice using my senior pass. There are no site hookups. They do have a communal water fill & dump site. The toilets are good and they have solar showers. A couple years ago I checked about going again & a private concessionaire was now in charge & refused to honor the senior pass discount. Almost seems like fraud to change it after the fact. I called & emailed complaints to the NPS but never heard back. I have not returned. I found other free boondocking sites. Just sad they want to take away our senior discount.

By "change it after the fact" do you mean the price changed between when you made a reservation and when you arrived, or that the price basically went up (due to there no longer being a discount offered) between your previous stay and your inquiry? The former seems questionable, the latter in my opinion is nothing at all near fraud, any more than a store or restaurant raising their prices substantially. You, of course, have the option of taking your custom elsewhere, as indeed you did.

Change it after the purchase of the senior pass which promised the discount. Now it's gone. They should have said the discount could betaken away at any time at their whim. That cg has no reservations.

[monkey44]

My opinion after more than fifty years camping in NPS parks ... A general statement of my experiences in parks AFTER private concessionaires take over would include less care, less maintenance, higher cost, added fees, and general rudeness of staff.

In my opinion again, NO private corporation should be allowed to make money on the backs of taxpayers, which is exactly what happens when a private corporation takes over. Taxpayers supply the land, ecosystem protection, fire protection, built the parks and campgrounds, built and maintain the roads.

Our best position, if data - often manipulated - suggests concessionaires can or might do a reasonable job running our camps, then HIRE that company for a straight fee, like we do road-building and other federal projects, and keep the profit margins above that fee IN THE PARKS for upkeep and upgrades.

Despite the fact that some individuals believe discounts should disappear, veterans earned a little compensation for protecting our country. Seniors built the parks over a lifetime of taxes. Disabled deserve a little compassion.

But regardless, it should be the decision of the NPS whether concessionaires apply a discount, not the concessionaire decision, as we KNOW what choice private companies make regarding revenue and profit.

It falls on all citizens and visitors to maintain the NPS system, and when a federally mandated discount (at one time at least) disappears, then only the holders of those passes pay more, so the raise in revenue hits only ONE portion of park visitors, and more than likely, those visitors attend parks and camp more often and generate more NPS and local towns revenue overall.

[DrewE]

steveh27 wrote:
My experience dealt with Long Pine cg in the everglades. I had stayed there twice using my senior pass. There are no site hookups. They do have a communal water fill & dump site. The toilets are good and they have solar showers. A couple years ago I checked about going again & a private concessionaire was now in charge & refused to honor the senior pass discount. Almost seems like fraud to change it after the fact. I called & emailed complaints to the NPS but never heard back. I have not returned. I found other free boondocking sites. Just sad they want to take away our senior discount.

By "change it after the fact" do you mean the price changed between when you made a reservation and when you arrived, or that the price basically went up (due to there no longer being a discount offered) between your previous stay and your inquiry? The former seems questionable, the latter in my opinion is nothing at all near fraud, any more than a store or restaurant raising their prices substantially. You, of course, have the option of taking your custom elsewhere, as indeed you did.

[steveh27]

My experience dealt with Long Pine cg in the everglades. I had stayed there twice using my senior pass. There are no site hookups. They do have a communal water fill & dump site. The toilets are good and they have solar showers. A couple years ago I checked about going again & a private concessionaire was now in charge & refused to honor the senior pass discount. Almost seems like fraud to change it after the fact. I called & emailed complaints to the NPS but never heard back. I have not returned. I found other free boondocking sites. Just sad they want to take away our senior discount.

[Terryallan]

Naio wrote:

agesilaus wrote:
There is a multi park vendor who does this sort of thing. He takes over State and Federal park campgrounds. He runs them, maintains them, improves them and still pays the state or Federal agency a fee for doing so. And he does not raise the fees and still makes a profit. He runs the Coyote Blog That link to his Park Privatization pages, where he explains how he does it. He hires many workcampers.

It seems the logical solution would be to allow the park service to have workcampers. Are there laws against that, maybe labor rights laws?

On a level playing field, government provided services are always cheaper than privately provided services. Both have the same base costs, but the private service has an additional cost, which is the profit to the owner.

But often the playing field is not level, as in this example where the private owner has a large amount of work done by people who are basically volunteers.

Don't know if this is what you mean. But the NP CGs, and COE campgrounds around here have Camp Hosts. They assign sites, and generally keep a close eye on the CG don't know how much they are paid, but they do get a site with full hookups. In many cases. the CGs they serve hove no hookups, or only have water, and sewer. But the hosts have it all. At the last Cg we were at. there were 2 host couples. They worked 4 days on and off. 12 hours a day.

Don't know if that is what you were referring to or not

[wannavolunteerF]

I am concerned about privatization because when it doesn't work, it is horrible. A state park that I have frequented for years has had most of its operations privatized. They built a big lodge, restaurant and club that does draw in a fair number of visitors to a somewhat remote area, adding to the local economy. On the other hand, they have little concept of running a park/campground, except charing fees. The camping fees have increased, but the bathhouses have not been improved in years and are getting a bit worn. Because it is a state park, the campground checkin and maintenance is part of state park. They use volunteer campground hosts and maintenance hosts, but have not seen big increases from the increased rates, (high demand park and location). They have had their budget for staffing increased (and I know this because I just accepted a volunteer position to make up for for some staffing budget shortfalls they expect during the winter). I have worked for years for the federal government and understand the need for contractors/private vendors but also understand they contracts need to be written VERY carefully so that the mission of the agency is not lost in the process of meeting a budget.