State Parks

[flathead92]

So BC ( before Covid) we didnt have to much of an issue getting res at AZ state parks. Now there like 6-8 months out. When we do get a res, and are there we see open spots everywhere, lots with names on posts BUT peeps never show. I SAY SCAM

[Lantley]

goducks10 wrote:
Part of the problem is understaffing across the board. From State workers to camphosts to administrating companies like CLM. Last year we stayed at our go to CG several different times. It's a chain of small dry campgrounds that follow a river. 9 total. There's usually a camp host at every CG. Last year there was one for the whole 9 CG's. He was underpaid and way way overworked.
Same thing in the State parks we frequent. Fewer hosts and the kiosks are open far less as well.

I'm sure there's an easy way to handle all the res issues but it takes more people than they have.

Rules are not enforced and some some CGs just don't care if a person doesn't show up. They got their money. I don't think any of the management firms are looking at ways to make a profit off no shows.

I agree the CG workers aren't pressed about the issue. It's the campers that need to demand more policies to eliminate vacant sites.
We all know demand has increased and it is very difficult to book a site in many places.
It is very aggravating and frustrating to go to a CG that is supposed to be totally booked only to observe the place is relatively empty due to no shows. How many people stayed home because they believed there were no sites available? When in reality there were plenty of sites available.

[Lantley]

ferndaleflyer wrote:
So? Charge their credit card because they didn't show, they tell credit Co they weren't their and charge is removed. So how does that help? Joe resident down the street that pays his taxes here can't get a spot because daddy big bucks reserves a spot for 2 weeks a year in advance then don't show, how does that work? Looks like the out of staters are playing the system, maybe. How about charging out of staters more and limiting how far in advance everyone can reserve? Who has a real solution? As I said above, I pay to get spots in private parks so I have never had a problem

You put a big fat box to check that says: I have read, understand and agree to the cancellation policy and the hefty penalty for no shows!
Basically you have all campers agree to the policy or camp elsewhere.
Keep in mind the idea is not to penalize people. The goal is to eliminate vacant sites. If you can't make it cancel.
If you have a break down call and say you'll be late. But no call no show is a flagrant violation that will get you a fine/penalty.
Hopefully a strict substantial penalty will be a strong deterrent to reduce/eliminate no shows and vacant sites.

[goducks10]

Part of the problem is understaffing across the board. From State workers to camphosts to administrating companies like CLM. Last year we stayed at our go to CG several different times. It's a chain of small dry campgrounds that follow a river. 9 total. There's usually a camp host at every CG. Last year there was one for the whole 9 CG's. He was underpaid and way way overworked.
Same thing in the State parks we frequent. Fewer hosts and the kiosks are open far less as well.

I'm sure there's an easy way to handle all the res issues but it takes more people than they have.

Rules are not enforced and some some CGs just don't care if a person doesn't show up. They got their money. I don't think any of the management firms are looking at ways to make a profit off no shows.

[ferndaleflyer]

So? Charge their credit card because they didn't show, they tell credit Co they weren't their and charge is removed. So how does that help? Joe resident down the street that pays his taxes here can't get a spot because daddy big bucks reserves a spot for 2 weeks a year in advance then don't show, how does that work? Looks like the out of staters are playing the system, maybe. How about charging out of staters more and limiting how far in advance everyone can reserve? Who has a real solution? As I said above, I pay to get spots in private parks so I have never had a problem

[Dutch_12078]

ferndaleflyer wrote:
only let them book a week or so in advance. First come first served.

That would pretty much tell out of staters the state does not want their out of state money.

[toedtoes]

bigred1cav wrote:
If I pay in advance and am unable to show, why is it an offense. They have my money and no maintenance fir my empty site.

Durb wrote:

ferndaleflyer wrote:
only let them book a week or so in advance. First come first served.

This may work well for many on this forum. A young couple that wants to take their kids camping would probably not go without a reservation as they have to schedule vacation time from their jobs and make numerous preparations. Driving 4 hours to find no sites would be a hardship. That is why it is such a shame to see the sites in state parks go empty because people are gaming the reservation systems. Nothing will change until not showing up the first night hits the gamers really, really hard in the wallet.

For a private RV Park/campground that's fine.

But public campgrounds are for the use of the people not for profits. If people are locking up campsites and not showing, then the government agency is not meeting its purpose.

[Lantley]

bigred1cav wrote:
If I pay in advance and am unable to show, why is it an offense. They have my money and no maintenance fir my empty site.

Durb wrote:

ferndaleflyer wrote:
only let them book a week or so in advance. First come first served.

This may work well for many on this forum. A young couple that wants to take their kids camping would probably not go without a reservation as they have to schedule vacation time from their jobs and make numerous preparations. Driving 4 hours to find no sites would be a hardship. That is why it is such a shame to see the sites in state parks go empty because people are gaming the reservation systems. Nothing will change until not showing up the first night hits the gamers really, really hard in the wallet.

Because the site was left vacant and unable to be used by anyone else.
Full occupancy is the goal not full payment.
You failed to occupy the site now you are in violation

[bigred1cav]

If I pay in advance and am unable to show, why is it an offense. They have my money and no maintenance fir my empty site.

Durb wrote:

ferndaleflyer wrote:
only let them book a week or so in advance. First come first served.

This may work well for many on this forum. A young couple that wants to take their kids camping would probably not go without a reservation as they have to schedule vacation time from their jobs and make numerous preparations. Driving 4 hours to find no sites would be a hardship. That is why it is such a shame to see the sites in state parks go empty because people are gaming the reservation systems. Nothing will change until not showing up the first night hits the gamers really, really hard in the wallet.

[toedtoes]

The National Parks have started doing a restriction on reservation changes to stop the holiday weekend gamers. Now, if you make a reservation, you have to wait 15 days before you can change it.

So, say you want the 4th of July weekend this year. Before you could book a site for June 16-30th as soon as the window open. Then in the next couple days, you change it to June 21 - July 5th. Then way down the road, you change it to June 30 - July 5th.

Now, if you book the site for June 16 - 30, you can't make any changes until AFTER that site has opened to the general public for the 1st of July, so anyone can come in and book the holiday weekend before you can change your reservation.

For folks who book two weeks just to show on the weekend, simply requiring a "must occupy the site on the first night of the reservation or you lose the entire reservation" policy works well.

For actual no shows and repeat cancellations, I think a sliding penalty scale is the way.

Stuff happens and penalizing everyone harshly for a single cancellation or no show is unsympathetic for the folks who had a breakdown on the way to the campground, etc.

So, for the first no show in a calendar year, it's a $50 fee ($75 if for a holiday weekend reservation). And you forfeit your reservation fees.

For the second no show, it's a $200 fee ($300 for a holiday weekend reservation) and you forfeit your reservation fee.

For the third no show, it's a $500 fee ($750 for a holiday weekend reservation), forfeit your reservation AND your account is banned from making any reservations for the following calendar year.

For cancellations, if you cancel more than 90 days out, it is a $20 fee.

If you cancel 30-89 days out it is a $50 fee.

If you cancel 7-29 days out , it is a $75 fee.

If you cancel less than 7 days out, it is a $200 fee.

However, if you have cancelled once already in the calendar year, the fee is doubled. If you have cancelled twice already, the fee is tripled AND your account cannot make any reservations for the next year.

[Durb]

ferndaleflyer wrote:
only let them book a week or so in advance. First come first served.

This may work well for many on this forum. A young couple that wants to take their kids camping would probably not go without a reservation as they have to schedule vacation time from their jobs and make numerous preparations. Driving 4 hours to find no sites would be a hardship. That is why it is such a shame to see the sites in state parks go empty because people are gaming the reservation systems. Nothing will change until not showing up the first night hits the gamers really, really hard in the wallet.

[troubledwaters]

Lantley wrote:
What hopefully comes from all this vacancy talk is that CG's start to penalize campers for no shows. The penalty needs to be steep. $100.00-$200.00 charged to credit card for no shows. Repeat offenders should be charged more.
CG's are less concerned about the issue because the sites are paid for,
however it's those of us that are shut out but continually encounter unoccupied sites that must bring this issue to the forefront.

Wow, I sure would hate to be half way to my destination and get a phone call telling me my brother in law died; necessitating me having to cancel my resevervation. $200 would be adding insult to injury.
P.S. It has happened to me; lucky for me, the penalty was only one days fee. It would suck if it happened to you.

[ferndaleflyer]

only let them book a week or so in advance. First come first served.

[Lantley]

What hopefully comes from all this vacancy talk is that CG's start to penalize campers for no shows. The penalty needs to be steep. $100.00-$200.00 charged to credit card for no shows. Repeat offenders should be charged more.
CG's are less concerned about the issue because the sites are paid for,
however it's those of us that are shut out but continually encounter unoccupied sites that must bring this issue to the forefront.

[ken56]

Honestly. I hate this strictly online booking stuff. People in general are selfish beings and don't care about anyone else but themselves so being inconsiderate is the norm today. Call the park itself to double check if any sites are open for an acceptable amount of time for you. I've done it and while I may not get the amount of days I wanted without moving sites they have been able to accommodate my needs. Flexibility is key.

[John_Burke]

I have visited with people who have reserved sites in more than one campground per night not knowing for sure how far they would get that day. Say the cost of paying for 3 sites is ok because they have a place to camp that night. Do not bother to cancel.
These folks (3 different people, two in Yellowstone) were under 30. New RV'ers, new class C's, new attitude. Take care of me, do not care about anybody else, just me.