What is it with campgrounds nowadays?

[luvmydogs]

Well we've been on the road now for about 2 months. It's been a few years since we've rv'd and boy have things changed with the campgrounds. Not only are they more expensive (like everything else in this world) but I dont understand something they all seem to do. I cant even count now how many times when calling the campgrounds for a site was told "only have one left". So when getting there I'm assigned a spot with also being told, "oh we're booked" or "only have one site available". Well what hogwash that has been just about every single time now. So if its not true, WHY SAY IT? It's been about every single time we've checked in with just a few exceptions. The campground we're in right now, I was told at check in that was the only spot they had. Well, it was grossly unlevel and our services didnt reach, so they gave me another spot. So what happened to that being the ONLY spot available??? And as we sit in the park, most of the sights are empty. Same with almost every campgroun. SO WHATS THE DEAL? Can anyone tell me why they outright lie like this?

On an end note I stupidly joined KOA since I remembered them being some of the better campgrounds years ago. NOT!!!! Dont waste your money. I've found over and over again, that KOA changes there rates depending on who you talk to. Not a good way to do business in my book.

[joe_b_]

Here is a reference to one of the software programs I downloaded a demo of and played with for a week or so. http://www.campground-master.com/ (standard disclaimers apply, no financial interest in the product and don't know the owners of the product) One of the many things I liked about the software, is that it allows a quick visual look at your campground to see what sites are reserved and for how many days. This could help alleviate the problem mentioned by Jaxdad of specific site requests. Often times, I am sure the one night person could be moved to another site, that fits the reservations request, such as a pull thru, back in by the lake, etc. But I know some places that allow the computer to have the final say create uncalled for problems for themselves and their customers.

Other campgrounds I have been at, have a minimum stay to request a specific site, such as 4 or 5 days commitment. Dealing with work campers, would have to be like trying to paint a train as it slowly passes through the station. Or dealing with a parade. Our favorite campground in western Colorado, where we often spend a month at a time, has a stable staff of work campers, the same people for the most part, year after year. Both workers and the owners have a commitment to each other a year ahead of time. This campground is fortunate in being in a location where they can charge a price that allows them to make a good profit and still pay their staff well, above normal wages. The owners have been there about 20 years and while not RVers themselves, they are excellent business managers and have figured out what their customers want and need in the way of services. The owners are cruise ship people and live in Florida in the winter time, hotel travel in Europe often, as their campground is seasonal and closes for the winter there in Colorado.

On the other hand, we stopped at a place in Tennessee, where we had previously stayed and found a new owner, a woman in her late 30s with a 16 year old son. They were the staff of the place, she tried to run the office 16 hours a day and the 16 year old was the maintenance man, after school and on weekends. They were so far behind it was sad, maintenance being deferred everywhere I looked, etc. The CG was getting run down in the short time she had owned it and I doubt she made it through the first year of operation.Not only was her dream shattered, but so was the stay of anyone that tried to stay there after she bought the place and didn't have the capital to operate it till it became profitable. Can't imagine the problems the people that ended up with it after her, in trying to reestablish a positive reputation for the place.

My wife and I owned a gift shop in a tourist town, in western Colorado prior to moving here to the swamp country of Florida. We also owned a group of 4 plex apartments in Anchorage Alaska for just over 30 years, plus a working ranch in southern Oklahoma. So I do have a bit of business experience and try to see both sides, but I find incompetence, in any business to be frustrating to have to deal with personally.

[westernrvparkow]

JaxDad wrote:
I'm sure it doesn't apply to all parks but I've discovered that with good many parks, even public ones, it's the computerized reservation system that's the problem.

If I want to book a particular site for a week but someone has booked a single day in the middle it will just say the site is 'unavailable' or 'booked' but not show the dates it's booked.

I see this most often in places that are on major routes and someone books a single night on their way through. The Parks Canada system along the Trans-Canada Hwy is notorious for this. Thankfully however their system now let's you see what days are booked so you can work around it.

Yes, that is how any system I have seen works, and it is probably the way it should work. As upset as someone would be to not be able to make reservation under your scenario, they would probably be more upset if the system booked them a seven night stay and when they checked in they found out they had to change sites every day. This is why we don't put an availability calendar online, don't assign specific sites when you reserve, and why we have humans handle all reservations, both online and phone reservations. We can make changes to make those reservations work. BTW, in your scenario, that full week reservation only works if the park is not sold out on the day that one night stay is reserved and if any other available site will hold that rig. What if the one night reservation requested a huge pull thru because they are a 40foot fifth wheel towing a ski boat and all the other available sites are short back in sites and you are also a big rig? There still would be no way to accommodate your full week even though the park had multiple vacancies.

[JaxDad]

I'm sure it doesn't apply to all parks but I've discovered that with good many parks, even public ones, it's the computerized reservation system that's the problem.

If I want to book a particular site for a week but someone has booked a single day in the middle it will just say the site is 'unavailable' or 'booked' but not show the dates it's booked.

I see this most often in places that are on major routes and someone books a single night on their way through. The Parks Canada system along the Trans-Canada Hwy is notorious for this. Thankfully however their system now let's you see what days are booked so you can work around it.

[SDcampowneroper]

Good one Joe,
I can have fun with this one and see your point.
Post it notes on a planner was the way the previous owner of our park kept track of reservations. That was 14 years ago. My DW changed that right away, she is still changing it as time ticks by.
There are still old time owners set in their ways that do work, for them. I see no reason to fault them because they have not kept up with technology, or their employees for 'lack of training'. Equating a camp desk to a doctors office doesn't fly. Should we camp owners need to hire MIT grads, I assure you camp rates would go way up.
Training camp staff for seasonal parks is a continual challenge. Workcampers come and go each year, most are older with limited computer experience. Even those that return next year need time to learn the changes made in their winter away.
Students looking for a summer job have more computer savvy, no practical use of that technology, or even what the differences are between a classes of Rvs. Hey, I have to show them how to sweep concrete!
To dispell some myths, I'll give some facts according to the National Association of Rv Parks and Campgrounds ( ARVC)
1- Average private ownership of a camp is 4.7 years. Its a demanding life that takes all of their time during the best time of year. They burn out.
2- 82% of small private camp owners are seasoned Rvers themselves, yet some did not grasp, or have the skills and experience needed to maintain all of the infrastructure of what is essentially a town with all the demands of utilities and vagaries of the residents. Again, burn out.
3- New owners come along with their expectations and style that ill suits the long term staff, if there are any, so the cycle starts again.
Max

[joe_b_]

While some jobs require lots of training, such as being a doctor or a jet aircraft technician, owning a campground on seems to be tied to the size of a person check book account. I would like to see as I said before, all campground reviews allow for comments about poorly managed campgrounds. When we get away from the franchise operations, the amount of training and experience of the owner, is anyone's guess. In this day of computers, I still run into some campgrounds where the reservations, etc. are kept on post it notes stuck on a calendar.

I even ran into one a couple of summers back where I had called for a reservation about a week ahead but when I got there and gave the owner my name. He just stared at me and told me he was trying to remember my reservation. Said he had a photographic memory and kept all reservations in his head, was a fairly new owner/operator. Several others came in to check in and it was chaos. If the guy had a photographic memory, his camera either didn't have any film in it or his computer chip was full and needed changed..

There are a number of good software programs to help manage a campground and since I enjoy software, I have downloaded a free trial or two, just to check them out. I liked one where you could even blackball some campers. Put in their name and it would pop up that the campground was full the nights they wanted to stay.
Most of the franchise places, maybe all of them, use that companies software and usually very few snafus when checking in.

[BubbaChris]

I imagine that sometimes it is like restaurants who won't seat people because they don't have enough cooks or waitstaff on hand to take proper care of everybody.

One of my favorite experiences like this was at a "no vacancy" B&B 2 years ago where we had reservations. When we arrived, there was a note telling us what room we were in and some treats for us to snack on. The entire building was empty, but I could also see a car with "Just Married" parked in front of the 2nd building behind us.

Turned out the family that runs the place had most of them away for an event, so they only reserved the 2 rooms that weekend. Just right for the 1 remaining family member to take proper care of everything, including making our very amazing breakfast ahead of schedule the next morning.

With KOA I've had much more good luck than bad. Including this past April when I needed to switch my 1-night Wednesday reservation to Friday night. They were wonderful about it and still put me in a great location.

[rockhillmanor]

All this full up, reservation issue is pretty much dictated if the CG is near an attraction or a popular destination.

Then I am quite sure they would fill each and every crook and cranny of their CG......I don't go within a hundred mile radius of a CG that is near any attraction or popular park! :B

[toedtoes]

monkey44 wrote:
I believe some folks need reservations (set vacations, etc) Some folks prefer no reservations.

If a CG did half reservations, half first come, it would work for everyone.

AND, if a reserved site is not occupied (with no late arrival call) it should be available for at least an overnight. If unoccupied for two nights, lose it to walk-up campers.

I'm only talking Feds and State parks here - could care less about how private CG's do it. Up to the owner...

I'd prefer that the first night is held, but if they don't show or call by 10 a.m. the next morning, the reservation is cancelled in its entirety. That would allow for a mechanical issue, traffic closure, etc. on the way there, but wouldn't benefit folks who book a night early with no intention of using it to "get their spot" for the weekend.

[Swampman597]

monkey44 wrote:
I believe some folks need reservations (set vacations, etc) Some folks prefer no reservations.

If a CG did half reservations, half first come, it would work for everyone.

AND, if a reserved site is not occupied (with no late arrival call) it should be available for at least an overnight. If unoccupied for two nights, lose it to walk-up campers for it's duration.

I'm only talking Feds and State parks here - could care less about how private CG's do it. Up to the owner...

Excellent idea.

[monkey44]

I believe some folks need reservations (set vacations, etc) Some folks prefer no reservations.

If a CG did half reservations, half first come, it would work for everyone.

AND, if a reserved site is not occupied (with no late arrival call) it should be available for at least an overnight. If unoccupied for two nights, lose it to walk-up campers for it's duration.

I'm only talking Feds and State parks here - could care less about how private CG's do it. Up to the owner...

[TrailerTravele1]

We had a similar experience, with national parks, state parks as well as commercial campgrounds, although it was especially prevalent in commercial campgrounds. Frustrating especially when you're staying for a few days and the really great site you want is unoccupied, but the office keeps telling you it's
taken. Sometimes I think the First Come First Served campgrounds such as Fruita Campground in Capitol Reef National Park have a better business model. It was packed with every site full by mid-day every day in mid-April this spring.

[Doug33]

I've seen this a few times. I've been told there is only one site left (either by phone or internet), so we get to the CG and figure that the CG is going to be packed that night. An dalas, there are several empty sites, and I would have liked to have one of them because they were better than mine. 😞

Thankfully, last time we camped they had us right next to the bathrooms, and only about 20' away, but they moved us to another site further away. Maybe they keep a few open for just this purpose.

[westernrvparkow]

rockhillmanor wrote:

PackerBacker wrote:
We primarily stay at KOA's when traveling. I've never been turned away or experienced the 'only site left' phenomena. We've even been accommodated in overflow sites twice while stopping overnight on long weekends; both campgrounds were filled to capacity.
Maybe we've just been lucky.

X2

I have been on the road full timing 6 years and have NEVER made a reservation. Just pull in. Even after hours when they are closed.

All CG's have several sites 'set aside' for RV's traveling and pulling off the road for the night. AND in all of my travels if I decided to stay an extra night I have never been refused.

So to the OP the open sites you are seeing are the ones set aside for traveling RV'ers. Usually it's the front row. And sometimes several in the back row for large rig pull thru's.

Not all parks set aside sites for the traveling public. We sure don't. We would reserve every single site a decade in advance if we could. We have already turned dozens of rigs this year due to us having no available space. And we were unable to extend several other guests, due to having the park reserved to capacity. We are probably the exception, but there will be times there is no room at the inn.
There can be numerous reasons why a site would go unfilled. Maybe you checked in for two weeks and the site you are wanting was reserved starting a week into your reservation. After you checked in, the guy who had the site you wanted had to cancel. It happens.
Maybe the site you are watching is already paid for and the people aren't using it the time you are there. Maybe the site you are watching has some issue that is rendering it unrentable. We had several sites we took out of the rental pool early in the season since we freshly sodded them and wanted to give the grass time to root. Maybe it is like SDparkowner pointed out, you requested a site with specific parameters and that is the site you got. Maybe you got so involved in your vacation that you forgot to Mrs. Kravits the site for a few days and it was occupied, you just didn't notice.
Managing the logistics of a park, keeping all the past, present and future guests happy, honoring requests and preferences for different sites, honoring the time that people made their reservations (best sites for earliest reservations) etc is very involved. It is much more chess than checkers.

[rockhillmanor]

PackerBacker wrote:
We primarily stay at KOA's when traveling. I've never been turned away or experienced the 'only site left' phenomena. We've even been accommodated in overflow sites twice while stopping overnight on long weekends; both campgrounds were filled to capacity.
Maybe we've just been lucky.

X2

I have been on the road full timing 6 years and have NEVER made a reservation. Just pull in. Even after hours when they are closed.

All CG's have several sites 'set aside' for RV's traveling and pulling off the road for the night. AND in all of my travels if I decided to stay an extra night I have never been refused.

So to the OP the open sites you are seeing are the ones set aside for traveling RV'ers. Usually it's the front row. And sometimes several in the back row for large rig pull thru's.