110v Residential fridge install

[PNW_Steve]

Hey Everyone,

I finally made up my mind regarding the replacement of my failed 6cu. ft. RV fridge in my little 5er.

I decided to go with the Whirlpool model #WRT111SFAW 10.7 cu. ft. "apartment" fridge.

This unit is 24" wide and about 60" tall so some minor cabinet mods were required. That completed the fridge fits fairly nicely. I still have minor interference on one side from the waste tank vent pipe. I am still working on that bit.

I had hopes that it would be miserly on the power consumption so that I can keep it cool while on the road running a Xantrex 1000watt PSW inverter and 2 golf cart batteries. The Energy Guide info indicated a typical energy consumption of 381kWh annually. Slightly over 1kWh daily.

With the unit installed in the cabinet, moderately filled and ambient temps running 52-85F we are consuming .55-.60kWh daily as measured by my new Kill-A-Watt meter.

With my 215AH battery bank and my 94% efficient inverter I should be able to run 24hrs without discharging the batteries too deeply.

The usable space is wonderful and the power consumption well below my expectations. We'll see how it fares on our next trip.

I am still undecided on the solar question. I haven't been boondocking like I used to. Maybe we will make a trip or two then look at whether or not we need solar.

[PNW_Steve]

Almot wrote:
Thank you, Steve. Doesn't happen very often that people with res fridges measure power or energy.

I'm trying to draw practical conclusions out of these numbers, i.e. battery AH draw together with inverter. The lower end seems to be ~60-AH when it's not too hot inside and not too much food. Upper end will be - probably - 85-90 AH when it's hot inside and more food loaded or replaced. Not bad for a box of that size, but with other trailer loads it becomes significant. Daily generator for sure.

Well, it doesn't fit in 6-7 cu.ft cabinet anyway. Will keep looking.

Yup. When I don't have shore power I will be running the genny 1-3 hours a day.

I am hoping to add around 500-600 watts of solar next year.

Our other loads are pretty manageable. Our lighting is all LED. Our TV is a 27" LED. Fridge and water heater don't require 12v.

[Almot]

Thank you, Steve. Doesn't happen very often that people with res fridges measure power or energy.

I'm trying to draw practical conclusions out of these numbers, i.e. battery AH draw together with inverter. The lower end seems to be ~60-AH when it's not too hot inside and not too much food. Upper end will be - probably - 85-90 AH when it's hot inside and more food loaded or replaced. Not bad for a box of that size, but with other trailer loads it becomes significant. Daily generator for sure.

Well, it doesn't fit in 6-7 cu.ft cabinet anyway. Will keep looking.

[John___Angela]

PNW_Steve wrote:

John & Angela wrote:

PNW_Steve wrote:

Almot wrote:
I didn't mean "100% American". I meant unknown Chinese brands that you see in big box stores among more-less known international brands. They come and go. Unknown parts, unknown compressors.

Among "big brands" the energy numbers are still high, and are all over the board, from 300 to 450 KWH a year for 9cf fridge. With "low" 300 KWH it means 80 AH a day including inverter, or 120 AH with other trailer loads, for a conservative user. This means daily generator run, even if you don't need A/C. Will it really be 2 times more efficient than the nameplate says? Don't know. Nobody measured daily AH, only Westend did, in a smaller fridge. I think I'll wait until this picture clears up. Or until I get unlimited power supply, i.e. 120V grid, on the camp.

The Energy Star energy usage number for my fridge was 381kWh / year. I have been running my kill-a-watt usage meter on it for over a week. The initial 24 hours (starting temp 80F)it consumed about .68kWh. The average daily consumptions since then has been .54-.56kWh / day.

I don't know if there is any truth to it but I have heard that the Energy Star test standard imposes an ambient temperature for testing of 90F. If so, this would give a fair comparison between models but would not yield realistic numbers for most average consumers.

Bottom line:
Energy Star estimate - 1.04kWh daily
Measured consumption - <.6kWh daily

Hey Steve. Does that fridge have auto defrost on it. I would prefer it doesn't as the auto defrost sucks up bunches of power and in our case it wouldn't be on more more then a month at a time. Thanks in advance.

By the way, thanks for the numbers. yu da man

Yes it does have auto defrost.

It also has a very nice schematic diagram on the back that points you very easily to the easily accessible plug/connector that you need to unplug to disable the auto defrost. At some point I will likely install a switch.

Perfect. Thanks Steve.

[PNW_Steve]

Almot wrote:

PNW_Steve wrote:
To clarify: The only day that it used .68kWh it was 80F in the trailer and the fridge was at ambient. After the initial cool down the consumption has averaged .55kWh daily.

What were the conditions of use after initial cool down? Running it empty and with the door closed, or using it as you normally would with your home fridge, opening and getting things in/out every hour or so, running stove next to it, and so on?

Filled about 1/3 full. Door opened several times. Stove used once.

[PNW_Steve]

John & Angela wrote:

PNW_Steve wrote:

Almot wrote:
I didn't mean "100% American". I meant unknown Chinese brands that you see in big box stores among more-less known international brands. They come and go. Unknown parts, unknown compressors.

Among "big brands" the energy numbers are still high, and are all over the board, from 300 to 450 KWH a year for 9cf fridge. With "low" 300 KWH it means 80 AH a day including inverter, or 120 AH with other trailer loads, for a conservative user. This means daily generator run, even if you don't need A/C. Will it really be 2 times more efficient than the nameplate says? Don't know. Nobody measured daily AH, only Westend did, in a smaller fridge. I think I'll wait until this picture clears up. Or until I get unlimited power supply, i.e. 120V grid, on the camp.

The Energy Star energy usage number for my fridge was 381kWh / year. I have been running my kill-a-watt usage meter on it for over a week. The initial 24 hours (starting temp 80F)it consumed about .68kWh. The average daily consumptions since then has been .54-.56kWh / day.

I don't know if there is any truth to it but I have heard that the Energy Star test standard imposes an ambient temperature for testing of 90F. If so, this would give a fair comparison between models but would not yield realistic numbers for most average consumers.

Bottom line:
Energy Star estimate - 1.04kWh daily
Measured consumption - <.6kWh daily

Hey Steve. Does that fridge have auto defrost on it. I would prefer it doesn't as the auto defrost sucks up bunches of power and in our case it wouldn't be on more more then a month at a time. Thanks in advance.

By the way, thanks for the numbers. yu da man

Yes it does have auto defrost.

It also has a very nice schematic diagram on the back that points you very easily to the easily accessible plug/connector that you need to unplug to disable the auto defrost. At some point I will likely install a switch.

[Almot]

PNW_Steve wrote:
To clarify: The only day that it used .68kWh it was 80F in the trailer and the fridge was at ambient. After the initial cool down the consumption has averaged .55kWh daily.

What were the conditions of use after initial cool down? Running it empty and with the door closed, or using it as you normally would with your home fridge, opening and getting things in/out every hour or so, running stove next to it, and so on?

[Gdetrailer]

Almot wrote:
I didn't mean "100% American". I meant unknown Chinese brands that you see in big box stores among more-less known international brands. They come and go. Unknown parts, unknown compressors.

Among "big brands" the energy numbers are still high, and are all over the board, from 300 to 450 KWH a year for 9cf fridge. With "low" 300 KWH it means 80 AH a day including inverter, or 120 AH with other trailer loads, for a conservative user. This means daily generator run, even if you don't need A/C. Will it really be 2 times more efficient than the nameplate says? Don't know. Nobody measured daily AH, only Westend did, in a smaller fridge. I think I'll wait until this picture clears up. Or until I get unlimited power supply, i.e. 120V grid, on the camp.

Name brands ARE "using" Chinese compressors and many other major components. Name brands now days means nothing, the last real American "manufacturer/brand" was Maytag, alas it is no longer and is now part of GE/Whirlpool..

Pretty much ALL major "white" appliances are built either outside the US or final assembled in the us using nearly 100% foreign parts.

To put this a little closer into perspective, my Fridge is a Haier brand but yet you CAN find the EXACT same fridge in Whirlpool, Magic Chef, GE, and many other "brands.. I have personally looked at many of those "brands" and the inside is the same.

I am not sure as to why your "beef" but the compressors ARE pretty darn reliable.

The problem that you will most likely run into is a leak in the tubing somewhere. That is what I run into with Dehumidifiers in my sticks and bricks. I HAVE owned EVERY MAJOR AND MINOR "brands" of dehumidifiers over the last 25 yrs (I average 2yrs for each dehumidifier), you would be shocked to know that only a couple of companies actually build dehumidifiers IN THE WORLD. NONE of them are in the States! The major brand names simply stick their name on them..

The major issue is the dehumidifiers losing freon, the compressor runs but without freon it is worthless..

As much as I would love to buy all American built items, I am a realistic person and realize that those days are long gone. Sometimes you have to just move along and not get stuck on the brands..

Just because it has a major well "known" American name brand emblazoned on the front does not mean it is not made in China!

The way I see it, my Chinese built fridge cost me $300, so far it now has been used for 7 camping seasons. It owes me nothing, I figured I could buy almost SIX of these fridges for what it would have cost for ONE RV fridge!

I could afford to replace the cheap fridge every TWO YEARS and STILL BE AHEAD (that would be 12yrs if you are keeping track). But at the rate I am going at 7years so far my cheap fridge has gone past my expectations. Heck at 7yrs I could go 42 YEARS with SIX home fridges! Not many people are going to keep their RV for 42 years..

Yeah it would kind of stink to have to change em out but hey it is only a little work since they hard work was already done for fitting it in.. :B

The upside is I can replace a home fridge nearly anywhere I go without needing to visit and order from a RV dealer..

[PNW_Steve]

Almot wrote:

PNW_Steve wrote:

I don't know if there is any truth to it but I have heard that the Energy Star test standard imposes an ambient temperature for testing of 90F. If so, this would give a fair comparison between models but would not yield realistic numbers for most average consumers.

Yes and no. Energy consumption of any refrigerator is measured by simulating room temperature 70F with door openings by testing it at 90F without door openings.

To earn Energy Star label, it should consume annually no more than 7.056*AV + 198.72, where AV=(1.68*fresh food volume)+(1.73*freezer volume). This is for fridge-freezer combo with ice maker off. The formula was revised in 2008, earlier models were given Energy Star under more lax criteria.

Yes, average consumer won't learn much from energy label. KWH has to be measured in a particular trailer at particular ambient temps and pattern of use. Though average consumers with these boxes don't really care because they are either on grid or run generator every day.

0.68 KWH a day = 72 AH from battery, including inverter. Approximately. When it gets hotter, the numbers will be higher. Or if you cook a big pot of something and put it in after letting it cool down to room temperature (whatever room temperature is, on that day) - it will go higher again.

The fact that there are no noticeable changes when it's hot or when it's off, like traveling with windows closed, is due to inertia of big boxes. It will draw those additional KWH later on, to cool it down to where it was. And when you load warm items in there, it will need additional KWH again. If you take trailer from home, pre-cooled, with food loaded and also pre-cooled, travel some hours, camp a day or two, and then go home before it warms up again, it's different from living there semi-permanent.

To clarify: The only day that it used .68kWh it was 80F in the trailer and the fridge was at ambient. After the initial cool down the consumption has averaged .55kWh daily.

[Almot]

Forgot to tell - the above formula - to qualify for Energy Star - is only for fridge-freezer combo 7.75 cu.ft and bigger.

[John___Angela]

PNW_Steve wrote:

Almot wrote:
I didn't mean "100% American". I meant unknown Chinese brands that you see in big box stores among more-less known international brands. They come and go. Unknown parts, unknown compressors.

Among "big brands" the energy numbers are still high, and are all over the board, from 300 to 450 KWH a year for 9cf fridge. With "low" 300 KWH it means 80 AH a day including inverter, or 120 AH with other trailer loads, for a conservative user. This means daily generator run, even if you don't need A/C. Will it really be 2 times more efficient than the nameplate says? Don't know. Nobody measured daily AH, only Westend did, in a smaller fridge. I think I'll wait until this picture clears up. Or until I get unlimited power supply, i.e. 120V grid, on the camp.

The Energy Star energy usage number for my fridge was 381kWh / year. I have been running my kill-a-watt usage meter on it for over a week. The initial 24 hours (starting temp 80F)it consumed about .68kWh. The average daily consumptions since then has been .54-.56kWh / day.

I don't know if there is any truth to it but I have heard that the Energy Star test standard imposes an ambient temperature for testing of 90F. If so, this would give a fair comparison between models but would not yield realistic numbers for most average consumers.

Bottom line:
Energy Star estimate - 1.04kWh daily
Measured consumption - <.6kWh daily

Hey Steve. Does that fridge have auto defrost on it. I would prefer it doesn't as the auto defrost sucks up bunches of power and in our case it wouldn't be on more more then a month at a time. Thanks in advance.

By the way, thanks for the numbers. yu da man

[Almot]

PNW_Steve wrote:

I don't know if there is any truth to it but I have heard that the Energy Star test standard imposes an ambient temperature for testing of 90F. If so, this would give a fair comparison between models but would not yield realistic numbers for most average consumers.

Yes and no. Energy consumption of any refrigerator is measured by simulating room temperature 70F with door openings by testing it at 90F without door openings.

To earn Energy Star label, it should consume annually no more than 7.056*AV + 198.72, where AV=(1.68*fresh food volume)+(1.73*freezer volume). This is for fridge-freezer combo with ice maker off. The formula was revised in 2008, earlier models were given Energy Star under more lax criteria.

Yes, average consumer won't learn much from energy label. KWH has to be measured in a particular trailer at particular ambient temps and pattern of use. Though average consumers with these boxes don't really care because they are either on grid or run generator every day.

0.68 KWH a day = 72 AH from battery, including inverter. Approximately. When it gets hotter, the numbers will be higher. Or if you cook a big pot of something and put it in after letting it cool down to room temperature (whatever room temperature is, on that day) - it will go higher again.

The fact that there are no noticeable changes when it's hot or when it's off, like traveling with windows closed, is due to inertia of big boxes. It will draw those additional KWH later on, to cool it down to where it was. And when you load warm items in there, it will need additional KWH again. If you take trailer from home, pre-cooled, with food loaded and also pre-cooled, travel some hours, camp a day or two, and then go home before it warms up again, it's different from living there semi-permanent.

[PNW_Steve]

Almot wrote:
I didn't mean "100% American". I meant unknown Chinese brands that you see in big box stores among more-less known international brands. They come and go. Unknown parts, unknown compressors.

Among "big brands" the energy numbers are still high, and are all over the board, from 300 to 450 KWH a year for 9cf fridge. With "low" 300 KWH it means 80 AH a day including inverter, or 120 AH with other trailer loads, for a conservative user. This means daily generator run, even if you don't need A/C. Will it really be 2 times more efficient than the nameplate says? Don't know. Nobody measured daily AH, only Westend did, in a smaller fridge. I think I'll wait until this picture clears up. Or until I get unlimited power supply, i.e. 120V grid, on the camp.

The Energy Star energy usage number for my fridge was 381kWh / year. I have been running my kill-a-watt usage meter on it for over a week. The initial 24 hours (starting temp 80F)it consumed about .68kWh. The average daily consumptions since then has been .54-.56kWh / day.

I don't know if there is any truth to it but I have heard that the Energy Star test standard imposes an ambient temperature for testing of 90F. If so, this would give a fair comparison between models but would not yield realistic numbers for most average consumers.

Bottom line:
Energy Star estimate - 1.04kWh daily
Measured consumption - <.6kWh daily

[Almot]

I didn't mean "100% American". I meant unknown Chinese brands that you see in big box stores among more-less known international brands. They come and go. Unknown parts, unknown compressors.

Among "big brands" the energy numbers are still high, and are all over the board, from 300 to 450 KWH a year for 9cf fridge. With "low" 300 KWH it means 80 AH a day including inverter, or 120 AH with other trailer loads, for a conservative user. This means daily generator run, even if you don't need A/C. Will it really be 2 times more efficient than the nameplate says? Don't know. Nobody measured daily AH, only Westend did, in a smaller fridge. I think I'll wait until this picture clears up. Or until I get unlimited power supply, i.e. 120V grid, on the camp.

[Gdetrailer]

Almot wrote:
Steve and Gdetrailer:

I am aware of all those dimensions and that home fridges have no cooling unit in the back.

Could measure again, but to my records, current - very typical - 6.3 Norcold is sitting in 25" deep space, REAR WALL TO OUTSIDE DOOR PANEL. 26.3/4" deep fridge would fit in 25" space just fine :)...
Dinette is across the fridge, not next to it. Fridge already sticks out the most, in the kitchen row on that side.

There could exist 7cf models that fit, haven't found them yet. Not among reputable brands. Buying unknown Chinese gizmo is asking for trouble, some of them are louder than fire alarm bell in my work, and then they stop working after a year.

What A/C? I'm off-grid on solar. When I'm gone fishing for a day with all windows closed, it gets real hot inside. When you keep inside temps 60-70, then you can cool the fridge with the inside air. And then you have energy numbers lower than they otherwise would've been.

When traveling I keep the windows closed, no vents open and the inside often gets to 80F-90F. Fridge does fine in that environment with no real noticeable change in on run time.

We often stop overnight during the summer, run a gen to run the A/C for ten minutes or so to cool the TT down to a more comfortable sleeping temp.. which is often 78F.. Sometimes though we have encountered night time temps dipping to 50-60 in the mountains and will set the furnace to run overnight..

As far as finding a true fully 100% American built fridge in the US built with 100% US materials with 100% us labor.. Forget about it, just plain doesn't happen now days.

Even the main stream name brands simply have the fridges built outside the states and shipped in containers from overseas..

Pretty hard to convince a closed mind that it can work for many if you don't mind doing a little renovation.

As for me, never looking back to hugging a RV fridge.