30 amp to 50 amp conversion?

[aclay]

This has probably been covered, but in my cursory search I didn't see much.

I have a Sprinter 311BHS and it has 30A service. I have to do a lot of power management not to trip the breaker. What all would be involved in changing it, and how much would it cost? I realize new inverter, probably new breaker panel, and a new outside plug/cord. I have to imagine the last bit would be the biggest pain as it would require cutting. I would probably want a professional to do this, but I would like to know just how much it would cost.

Before all the questions about loads; this is what could potentially be running at one time: Outside fridge, inside fridge, hot water heater, AC, TV, possibly 2nd tv in bunkhouse, coffee pot or microwave. Obviously we can time some of this, but usually if I have to run the AC i have to switch the hot water heater to propane. This isn't a deal breaking situation, I'm just looking for an improvement.

The next model year Sprinter offered 50A service as an option...

Anyone done this change? Anyone know about the pros/cons? Costs?

Thanks.

[BurbMan]

motorcycle jack wrote:
There is another way to wire a 50A plug with just one side of the 120V-50A and wire it into the 30A distribution. That will give you 50A instead of 30A, but you need to use one of the hots, ground and neutral. For proper wiring on the web.

Or you could just buy a 50a-30a dogbone...and you are still limited to 30 amps because the main breaker in the RV is 30 amps....and sized that way to protect the #10 wire.

[westend]

myredracer wrote:

westend wrote:

The absence of a 50 amp receptacle at a campground pedestal is not that common anymore and, if encountered, can be dealt with easily using an adaptor.

You must be staying only in high-end CGs...:B The NEC (art. 551) only requires 20% of pedestals to have 50 amp while 30 amps are required at 70% of them.

The NEC requirements are min. and anyone can upgrade from that, but it does add a lot of cost to the initial wiring. The NEC is way behind on keeping up with all the RVs these days with 50 amp services. Same on how wiring size is calculated to each pedestal.

Many of the CGs we stay at are older ones and have maybe 10% (?) or less 50 amps, which I'm guessing is because the NEC requirements decades ago required even fewer 50 amp pedestals.

I'm rarely hooked up to a pedestal. If I am, it's at a casino or a campground close to an event. I have 50 amp service at my house. I know how you Canadians are though--unlimited hydro and everyone still tries to save a watt, lol.

I agree with your take on campground wiring, it is always suspect IME.

[myredracer]

westend wrote:

The absence of a 50 amp receptacle at a campground pedestal is not that common anymore and, if encountered, can be dealt with easily using an adaptor.

You must be staying only in high-end CGs...:B The NEC (art. 551) only requires 20% of pedestals to have 50 amp while 30 amps are required at 70% of them.

The NEC requirements are min. and anyone can upgrade from that, but it does add a lot of cost to the initial wiring. The NEC is way behind on keeping up with all the RVs these days with 50 amp services. Same on how wiring size is calculated to each pedestal.

Many of the CGs we stay at are older ones and have maybe 10% (?) or less 50 amps, which I'm guessing is because the NEC requirements decades ago required even fewer 50 amp pedestals.

[motorcycle_jack]

There is another way to wire a 50A plug with just one side of the 120V-50A and wire it into the 30A distribution. That will give you 50A instead of 30A, but you need to use one of the hots, ground and neutral. For proper wiring on the web.

[time2roll]

That hard part of the 30 to 50 conversion is pulling the 6/3 romex from the entry to the breaker panel. The rest is just tediously swapping the connections to the new panel. If pulling the romex is easy access then the upgrade is a slam dunk.

Could also use a load shed device.

http://www.bestconverter.com/Automatic-Load-Shed-_c_96.html

You could string a couple of these on a single circuit to give priority to Coffee then Microwave and lastly Water Heater or your choice to keep the air running.

Or put something on a separate power inlet to grab power from the separate 20a GFI on the pedestal.

[westend]

myredracer wrote:
From Cheapheat's website:

Q: CAN I UPGRADE MY RV FROM A 30 AMP SERVICE TO A 50 AMP SERVICE?
A: YES, It can be usually be performed by a qualified electrician for a couple hundred dollars.

How do you upgrade to 50 amps for only a couple hundred dollars? Is it a true 120/240 volt 50 amp service and with a new panelboard and 50A shore power cord? There is a complete lack of tech. info. on the website and I would study what they say and have to offer very carefully if considering anything from them.

The problem I see with upgrading to 50 amps is that a lot of pedestals in CGs don't have 50 amps.

Scooter Alfa wrote:
Larry McGaugh
President
RV Comfort Systems
Ph 425-408-3140
These people have a complete way to change from 30 amp to 50 amp service without changing everything. Its for adding there electric heater to your trailer but you don't have to but can use this to up your amps. Just google RV Comfort System and you will see a place to email him for the info. The first time he sent it to me it didn't come threw so I emailed him and told him and he sent it the correct way the second time. Scott

Yeah, if they're suggesting that changing the service in an RV will be a total of a couple of hundred, total, that is far off the mark. Especially if an owner has to hire an electrician. The power inlet and cord will be more than $200.

FWIW, I changed my service to 50 amp, doing the work myself, and the cost was probably around $300. I got lucky and found a Marinco inlet on E Bay and a shore cord at CW on clearance for 1/3 retail. The cost of the load center and breakers was probably around $100. That is residential gear and not an RV load center with the 12v fuse panel. I have more breakers, though, than a typical RV because I know that distribution is sometimes more important than the total capacity.

If an owner wanted the cheapest upgrade for total power, the addition of a 20 amp circuit is probably the way to go. A 20 amp disconnect box and a good extension cord is not that much.

The absence of a 50 amp receptacle at a campground pedestal is not that common anymore and, if encountered, can be dealt with easily using an adaptor.

[aclay]

Thanks to all for the info and ideas. Great reading.

[RollandB]

LarryJM thanks for sharing your album on the dual 30amp system.

[myredracer]

From Cheapheat's website:

Q: CAN I UPGRADE MY RV FROM A 30 AMP SERVICE TO A 50 AMP SERVICE?
A: YES, It can be usually be performed by a qualified electrician for a couple hundred dollars.

How do you upgrade to 50 amps for only a couple hundred dollars? Is it a true 120/240 volt 50 amp service and with a new panelboard and 50A shore power cord? There is a complete lack of tech. info. on the website and I would study what they say and have to offer very carefully if considering anything from them.

The problem I see with upgrading to 50 amps is that a lot of pedestals in CGs don't have 50 amps.

Scooter Alfa wrote:
Larry McGaugh
President
RV Comfort Systems
Ph 425-408-3140
These people have a complete way to change from 30 amp to 50 amp service without changing everything. Its for adding there electric heater to your trailer but you don't have to but can use this to up your amps. Just google RV Comfort System and you will see a place to email him for the info. The first time he sent it to me it didn't come threw so I emailed him and told him and he sent it the correct way the second time. Scott

[Scooter_Alfa]

Larry McGaugh
President
RV Comfort Systems
Ph 425-408-3140
These people have a complete way to change from 30 amp to 50 amp service without changing everything. Its for adding there electric heater to your trailer but you don't have to but can use this to up your amps. Just google RV Comfort System and you will see a place to email him for the info. The first time he sent it to me it didn't come threw so I emailed him and told him and he sent it the correct way the second time. Scott

[myredracer]

Installing a new power inlet and plugging into the 15/20 amp GFCI recept. on a pedestal is a good option and much cheaper than upgrading to 50 amps. You could perhaps use the 20 amp pedestal recept. for a dedicated connection to the water heater. Then if the 20A isn't available on a pedestal, you can convert to propane for the duration of the stay at the CG.

You could also buy a commercially available load shedding unit but these aren't cheap.

What I would do is make your own load shedder . A coffee pot, toaster or microwave are on for only minutes, whereas the water heater can run for much long periods on electric to adequately heat up the water. You could dump the heater when an appliance is plugged in by using a simple current sensing relay setup. A CR Magnetics CR4395-EH-120-330-X-CD-ELR-I would work well. Available on Amazon here: current sensing relay This model has instantaneous operation of the control contacts. There are several versions of this relay so make sure you order the right one.

Mount this relay in a suitably sized box behind the converter/panel and run the hot wire for the kitchen counter plug circuit through it before it goes into the panel. Connect the heater circuit to the output contacts and then back into the panel. The relay is adjustable and would probably be set at 15 amps. Total material cost should be under $150.

When thinking about and calculating max. loads, something to note about the 30 amp pedestal breaker or the one in your panel is that they do not trip the instant they exceed 30 amps. There is an inverse time-current characteristic as shown in the generic graph. The higher the overload, the faster the breaker trips. The graph is hard to read, but say at 35 amps, the breaker would trip after something like 5-6 minutes. At 40 amps,, it would trip in 2-3 min. However, the pedestal breaker could possibly trip earlier due to use and abuse and years of being outdoors. Point is, don't panic if you think the load will go a few amps over the 30 amp rating for short periods.

.

[LarryJM]

aclay wrote:
This has probably been covered, but in my cursory search I didn't see much.

I have a Sprinter 311BHS and it has 30A service. I have to do a lot of power management not to trip the breaker. What all would be involved in changing it, and how much would it cost? I realize new inverter, probably new breaker panel, and a new outside plug/cord. I have to imagine the last bit would be the biggest pain as it would require cutting. I would probably want a professional to do this, but I would like to know just how much it would cost.

Before all the questions about loads; this is what could potentially be running at one time: Outside fridge, inside fridge, hot water heater, AC, TV, possibly 2nd tv in bunkhouse, coffee pot or microwave. Obviously we can time some of this, but usually if I have to run the AC i have to switch the hot water heater to propane. This isn't a deal breaking situation, I'm just looking for an improvement.

The next model year Sprinter offered 50A service as an option...

Anyone done this change? Anyone know about the pros/cons? Costs?

Thanks.

I had the same issue and instead of simply running an extension cord from like the 110V source on the pedestal I that would be limited to 15 or 20A and require running cords into the trailer and then extension cords to where I wanted the power I decided to upgrade my service to a dual 30A (60A total) service which required zero mods to the existing 30A service and cost a small fraction of what a true 50A upgrade would cost. The details of what I did with specific descriptions and where and how much the various items cost in the captions are in THIS ALBUM

Larry

[Big_Katuna]

I have a 50A coach and you will still have the same issues when you are on 30A.

I'd suggest a simpler approach. I added an aux power cord that plug into the extra 120/15-20A plug that almost all pedestals have. I power an extra receptacle placed for you know whose hair dryer but you could wire it to your AC then everything else would have plenty of juice. You could even add a recep wired to the OEM ac breaker and plug your ac into in case there wasn't a 15A pedestal recep.

Way less expensive.

[aclay]

The outside fridge is in the outside kitchen (the large "hatch" at the rear of the TT behind the 2nd door in the photo). It's one of those dorm fridges and it only runs on 110v. It is plugged in and I"m able to unplug it.

Thanks for the info.