air bags on truck

[beaudin12]

We were told that by adding air bags to our truck we could pull a 5th wheel that is heavier than the manufacturers recommendations. Does anyone know about this? We have been told by more than one RV dealership that this is so.

[dfb]

The air bags will level the truck and Rv. If your truck is squatting, it will help your towing by putting the tow vehicles ride level. If you have a 3/4 ton truck, and add badg or helpers, you will increase your in bed weight capacity. The only difference in the 3/4 ton to 1 ton is those springs. Period. What will really help your load capacity is the dually. Notice load,not tow. Since many 3/4 tons can only add 2000 lbs, and the one ton dually is more than 4000 lbs, in the bed. The one ton dually is what you want for large fifth wheels with pin weight hitting over 3000 lbs.

[dfb]

krazymatt wrote:
Depending on your tow vehicle there's probably no doubt that it will pull it especially if its' a diesel but the problem arises if you get in an accident where someone gets hurt or killed and the lawyers will have a field day with you for negligence.

Not true! Insurance pays if the fault is yours. No regards to weight. If the other party is at fault, the weight of your vehicle is not relevant. In either case, you and your vehicles are insured. The only issue is who is at fault. Weight is not an issue. Where does thus stuff come from?

[milo]

Water-Bug wrote:
NEVER put airbags on a 1/2 ton PU.

OK Water-Bug...I'll bite... Why Not?

[noteven]

Paul Clancy wrote:
They do add capacity the same as adding a leaf. They do not change the manufacturer rating of the truck.

That's right except on rv.net - if you install a F250 cab on a F750 chassis the 250's door sticker GVW adjusts all components on the 750 chassis at the molecular atomic level to limit their strength to the sticker weight. ??

[R12RTee]

mdamerell wrote:

Me Again wrote:
20k is an axle with four tires. An axle with two tires is 12k or the tread width depending on state etc. Tandem axles (8 tires) are 34k.

Most standard 18 wheelers are 12+34+34=80k

Chris

Not true, depends on tire and axle rating. My Steer axle was rate at 14,000# and I ran J(? it's been a while) rated tires to support that. My drive axles were actually rated for 40,000# but limited by bridge law to 34,000#. Still maxed out at 80,000# but gave some wiggle room to scale it out. The super singles are an example of 2 tires on an axle rated for 20,000#

Bridge Law to protect road and bridge surface. Also controls distance between axle sets.
Single axle 20,000# (based on axle and tire rating but 20,000#)
tandem axle 34,000#
spread axle 40,000# (think it was 8' center to center of the two axles)

Close on the spread axles. It is a 10 foot spread to carry 40,000.

[MartyMoose]

Love my Firestone bags. I also installed the onboard compressor which I can control from the cab. It comes in handy as I can adjust as I drive. My toy hauler has the spare tire mounted on the bottom of the trailer in the rear. I drags so I release the air which raises the rear of the camper in circumstances ( backing into my driveway ) when needed.

[bucky]

Wasn't there a saying in days past when an argument wasn't going anywhere to say "oh just bag it"? So there you have it! 🙂

[mdamerell]

Me Again wrote:
20k is an axle with four tires. An axle with two tires is 12k or the tread width depending on state etc. Tandem axles (8 tires) are 34k.

Most standard 18 wheelers are 12+34+34=80k

Chris

Not true, depends on tire and axle rating. My Steer axle was rate at 14,000# and I ran J(? it's been a while) rated tires to support that. My drive axles were actually rated for 40,000# but limited by bridge law to 34,000#. Still maxed out at 80,000# but gave some wiggle room to scale it out. The super singles are an example of 2 tires on an axle rated for 20,000#

Bridge Law to protect road and bridge surface. Also controls distance between axle sets.
Single axle 20,000# (based on axle and tire rating but 20,000#)
tandem axle 34,000#
spread axle 40,000# (think it was 8' center to center of the two axles)

While you are legal if you exceed manufacture's limits there is also a certain level of performance and longevity built into their numbers. Personally I dislike driving a vehicle at or beyond it's limits. Much more pleasant to drive one with excess capacity.

Have a great night.

[flyairam]

Chris,

You're right, but it varies state to state. Most states conform to the federal standard or they lose their federal highway money. New Mexico, for instance, is shown in some towing guides as having a GVWR limit by the manufacturer but that limit isn't contained in the statutory language nor is their a federal limit of same.
------------------------------------------------------------
NMSA 1978
66-7-409. Load limits on single axles, wheels and tires.

A. The gross weight imposed on the highway by the wheels of any one axle of a vehicle shall not exceed twenty-one thousand six hundred pounds nor shall any one wheel carry a load in excess of eleven thousand pounds.

B. For the purposes of Sections 66-7-401 through 66-7-416 NMSA 1978, a single-axle load is defined as the total load transmitted to the road by all wheels whose centers are included between two parallel transverse vertical planes forty inches or less apart extending across the full width of the vehicle. A tandem axle load is defined as the total load transmitted to the road by all wheels whose centers are included between two parallel transverse vertical planes more than forty inches apart but less than one hundred twenty inches apart, extending across the full width of the vehicle. The allowed load on tandem axles shall not exceed the gross weight given in Section 66-7-410 NMSA 1978 for the respective distance between the axles.

C. No wheel equipped with pneumatic, solid rubber or cushion tires shall carry a load in excess of six hundred pounds for each inch of tire width. The width of pneumatic tires shall be taken at the manufacturer's rating. The width of solid rubber and cushion tires shall be measured at the flange of the rim.
--------------------------------------------------
There's no way I'm going to win this weight war but I'd had it up to "here"...

Have a good evening.

Randy

[Me_Again]

20k is an axle with four tires. An axle with two tires is 12k or the tread width depending on state etc. Tandem axles (8 tires) are 34k.

Most standard 18 wheelers are 12+34+34=80k

Chris

[flyairam]

beaudin12,

If you think your truck needs bags, get'em. Don't worry about the weight police, the REAL weight police know the REAL limits.

Your truck is legal to carry anything that doesn't exceed 20,000 pounds per axle, the tire sidewall capacity, or 600, 700 or 800 pounds per inch of tire width, depending on the state you're in. From a practical standpoint, the only limit you'll run into is the tire sidewall limit, the others are waaay higher than what your average RV'er will pull.

Example: I'm running 19.5 x 10 inch tires on my SRW 3500. Per tire sidewall, I'm limited to 4600-ish pounds per tire, 9200 pounds on the axle. It's an AAM 11.5 axle, btw, and rated at 10,000 pounds. Soooo, my legal limit is 9200 pounds on the rear axle because that's the lower of the above listed limits.

Has anyone in internet-land (non commercial) ever been cited for being overweight unless one of the above criterion were exceeded? Has anyone in internet-land ever had their insurance claim denied because they exceeded a published weight?

Insurance laws were enacted to protect others FROM you, that's why they're called "financial responsibility requirements" in my state. You see, if I were to hop in my truck, drunk, speeding, and without registration, killing a bus full of nuns on their way to feed kittens at an animal shelter, would my insurance company deny the claim based on my illegal acts? No way. NEVER happens.

We're all big boys and girls; drive safe, accept responsibility for your decisions, and enjoy your camping rig.

Yes, I'm LEO.

Putting on my flame retardant suit...

Randy

[Paul_Clancy]

They do add capacity the same as adding a leaf. They do not change the manufacturer rating of the truck.

[Cummins12V98]

Me Again wrote:

mdamerell wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
"The bags do not change how much weight your truck can carry"

OK, lets discuss that. If that were the case how does my new 15 with factory AIR BAGS support at least a 6K load? It sure is not the wimpy spring pack.

You can say adding bags does not change your trucks ratings for sure.

The air bags will not change the manufactures ratings. The axles and drive train will still only perform as rated. The bags just help the ride quality.

The air ride suspension of your RAM is a different situation than adding air bags to a stock leaf suspension. In the case of the RAM (like on a semi) the air bags are the designed suspension.

Apples and Oranges

OK, I will step in on this one. We have a Buick Rainier with rear air. It has a link on each end of the axle that connects to a valve design to maintain the same ride height lightly loaded or fully loaded, which is similar the air 2500 and new different air 3500. Both have similar ride height sensing.

Aftermarket air bags do not have that. However you can get in cab controls and become the computer that controls ride height!

Chris

I installed bags on my 11 Dually with in cab controls. I know I did not change the "RATING" but if bags on my 15 and wimpy springs can be rated to over 6K carrying capacity me thinks I made my 11's rear end capable of adding more capacity.

I may have to re think the 2500 with bags thingy. :S

[rhagfo]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

Golden_HVAC wrote:
Basically the manufactures publish the "Maximum towing ability" rating by taking a stock truck, without the 4 wheel drive 400 pound option, or any other options, and add a 154 pound driver. No passengers, not even 3 pounds of sandwich and diet coke.

Say the curb weight with the driver is 7,200 pounds. The GCVWR with truck and trailer is 22,200 pounds. Then they publish 'It can tow 15,000 pounds'. However this is not true. If the GVWR of the pickup is only 8,800 pounds (like 2004 and earlier F-250's or 9,200 pounds like the older GMC 2500 trucks) then the cargo rating on the truck is less than 2,000 pounds, and fifth wheel towing would be limited to only about 10,000 pounds before going over the GVWR of the truck.

And if you should want to go camping with your family, and take along 500 pounds of passengers, and perhaps install a 150 pound hitch in the truck to tow that fifth wheel, your truck curb weight will increase to say 7,850 pounds. Now even a 11,500 pound GVWR SRW F-350 made after 2005 would seem limiting on what fifth wheel you can safely tow before going over the GVWR. 11,500 - 7,850 = 3,650 pounds. Take a 15,000 pound fifth wheel, and 20% of that is 3,000 pounds on the pin. That will put you just under the pickup's GVWR by about 650 pounds. You will not be over the rear axle weight rating (something like 7,000 pounds in the case of the F-350 2005 and later with 18" rims and "E" rated tires). But the truck's braking system was designed to stop the entire 11,500 pounds, not 12,350 pounds or whatever someone might load it up to.

Get the right truck, and until then - select a travel trailer that is well within your cargo rating on the truck that you have, until you can get the truck that is needed to tow the fifth wheel that is of your dreams!

Have fun camping!

Fred.

Good points!

So now days there are about 10 different GVWR, and GRAWR depending on packages installed.

My 01 with Camper Package is basically a SRW 3500 not offered in 01, or 02, tires have 373# EA. additional capacity, 3500 springs, but the VIN sticker is still STATES 8,800# I tow at 10,000# and am still better than level with 600#+ available on the 6,084# GRAWR, which should be 6,830# due to the bigger tires.

Don't have bags don't need or want them.

[Me_Again]

mdamerell wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
"The bags do not change how much weight your truck can carry"

OK, lets discuss that. If that were the case how does my new 15 with factory AIR BAGS support at least a 6K load? It sure is not the wimpy spring pack.

You can say adding bags does not change your trucks ratings for sure.

The air bags will not change the manufactures ratings. The axles and drive train will still only perform as rated. The bags just help the ride quality.

The air ride suspension of your RAM is a different situation than adding air bags to a stock leaf suspension. In the case of the RAM (like on a semi) the air bags are the designed suspension.

Apples and Oranges

OK, I will step in on this one. We have a Buick Rainier with rear air. It has a link on each end of the axle that connects to a valve design to maintain the same ride height lightly loaded or fully loaded, which is similar the air 2500 and new different air 3500. Both have similar ride height sensing.

Aftermarket air bags do not have that. However you can get in cab controls and become the computer that controls ride height!

Chris