Andersen Ultimate 5th Wheel Connection -- Wreck ????

[TenOC]

I have read a lot of posting that bad mouth this hitch as been too weak since it is make of aluminum and the design is different from all other hitches.

Does anyone know of a Anderson hitch that has failed?? . . . :h

I am sure that all hitches MAY fail in a wreck. If I have a wreck I may want my 5er to come lose from my TV. I do not know which would be best, I think it would depend on the wreck.

[jerem0621]

Me Again wrote:

ralphnjoann wrote:
Well, for one thing, the Andersen hitch does not cause "100 percent" of the weight of the trailer to be carried by the bed of the truck.

Second, the pin weight is carried by a ball mounted on a cross member secured to the rails of the truck. Snugging down the hitch so it doesn't shift does not place pin weight on the bed. That 40 or so pounds of force is there whether or not a trailer is attached.

Finally, the problems you had with your pin box must not be widespread since yours was the first and only one I have read about on these forums.

You can not pull down and hold up with the same mechanism.

I don't think it's exactly the same mechanism serving the same purpose. The nut on top of the tube screws down on top of the ball forcing the base to likewise be pulled down on top of the bed floor. This is accomplished by pulling up on the ball but the hitch pin that attaches the Andersen to the gooseneck. The weight is not carried by the ball in the gooseneck at all. But the weight is carried by the gooseneck hitch rails and the frame of the truck. The only thing in common is that the ball is in the gooseneck receiver.

For some to say there is only some weight on the bed is untrue. Nearly all of the pin weight has to travel through the bed floor. The force distribution starts at the kingpin adaptor, through the ball on the top of the Anderson, through the pyramid frame to the base feet to the bed, to the hat channels, to the gooseneck hitch rails and the truck frame rails, through the suspension, to the wheels and tires, and finally to the ground. If I understand the distribution of force correctly in this application.

There is no single path for the weight to follow to the ground...it passes through all the equipment...even the bed floor.

I do believe that the puck system and the gooseneck system are both sound ways to install a fifth wheel hitch and keep the bed floor flat when unloaded.

I personally think one big hole in the bed is better than four but I digress. There is no doubt that the puck system is the most direct way to attach a fifth wheel hitch to the frame of a truck.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[Me_Again]

ralphnjoann wrote:
Well, for one thing, the Andersen hitch does not cause "100 percent" of the weight of the trailer to be carried by the bed of the truck.

Second, the pin weight is carried by a ball mounted on a cross member secured to the rails of the truck. Snugging down the hitch so it doesn't shift does not place pin weight on the bed. That 40 or so pounds of force is there whether or not a trailer is attached.

Finally, the problems you had with your pin box must not be widespread since yours was the first and only one I have read about on these forums.

You can not pull down and hold up with the same mechanism.

[Rygar]

Right on IdaD. I always had angst when hooking up to my old Reese hitch. I bought a new Tv last year and decided to go with the Andersen mostly based on the weight of it. It made hooking up my fifth wheel a pleasure. So easy and smooth no matter if it's flat terrain or not. Great hitch, I'd highly recommend it.

[IdaD]

Searching_Ut wrote:

SabreCanuck wrote:
Honestly, I haven't been on this forum for 6 months and the first thing that comes up is you guys and this Anderson topic again. Crazy.

Please also keep in mind that every time you talk about the Anderson, everyone always seems to forget there is a RAIL version that has nothing to do with a gooseneck ball which at the same time means that just cause it's an Anderson doesn't mean the weight is on the ball, box, bed, etc. The weight is spread just the same as any other hitch on the rail version.

Indeed, there is a rail version, but it only comes in steel, with very little weight advantage over several rail mounted conventional hitches. Myself I find the conventional hitch head far easier to hitch and use than I did my Andersen. The advantage was in weight, which with my B&W puck mount is admittedly significant. That said, it hitches much easier, especially when the trailer and truck are tilted significantly. The ball hitch would sometimes hang up both disconnecting and connecting.

Back to the original question of failure, when I think about it, approximately a third of the fifth wheel crashes I've come across had the hitch fail in the crash. Saw one a few weeks ago on I-80 across the salt flats with 5er on side, truck upright and separate. News said wind blew it over and hitch decoupled. Hitch type unknown. Another on I-15 where truck had gone into center median, jackknifed and tipped over and was upside down with upright 5er having been pushing it through dirt. Another fatal on a local road where RV T-boned a car, fatal for car occupants, 5er stayed coupled but caved in back of truck in tailgate area and back of cab. Truck occupants walked away though. These are just ones I've personally seen in the last year which begs the question, how often do fifth wheel hitches of any type fail during accidents?

42 lbs is a lot lighter than most standard rail mount fifth wheel hitches or at least ones that slide. Maybe a standard mount cheapo hitch doesn't weigh a lot less but it wouldn't work in my short bed like the Andersen does.

I have exactly the opposite take on which is easier to deal with. There's not really any more up and down with a regular fifth wheel hitch unless you only camp on level ground, which I don't and my property at home is sloped as well. The Andersen is basically failsafe to hitch as long as you don't forget to push the pin in. It also goes over uneven ground nicer in my experience.

The really bizarre thing is how much angst the hitch causes with people here. Use if you want or don't, but the constant baseless bashing gets tiresome. I've yet to meet an owner in real life who doesn't really like the way it works.

[Searching_Ut]

SabreCanuck wrote:
Honestly, I haven't been on this forum for 6 months and the first thing that comes up is you guys and this Anderson topic again. Crazy.

Please also keep in mind that every time you talk about the Anderson, everyone always seems to forget there is a RAIL version that has nothing to do with a gooseneck ball which at the same time means that just cause it's an Anderson doesn't mean the weight is on the ball, box, bed, etc. The weight is spread just the same as any other hitch on the rail version.

Indeed, there is a rail version, but it only comes in steel, with very little weight advantage over several rail mounted conventional hitches. Myself I find the conventional hitch head far easier to hitch and use than I did my Andersen. The advantage was in weight, which with my B&W puck mount is admittedly significant. That said, it hitches much easier, especially when the trailer and truck are tilted significantly. The ball hitch would sometimes hang up both disconnecting and connecting.

Back to the original question of failure, when I think about it, approximately a third of the fifth wheel crashes I've come across had the hitch fail in the crash. Saw one a few weeks ago on I-80 across the salt flats with 5er on side, truck upright and separate. News said wind blew it over and hitch decoupled. Hitch type unknown. Another on I-15 where truck had gone into center median, jackknifed and tipped over and was upside down with upright 5er having been pushing it through dirt. Another fatal on a local road where RV T-boned a car, fatal for car occupants, 5er stayed coupled but caved in back of truck in tailgate area and back of cab. Truck occupants walked away though. These are just ones I've personally seen in the last year which begs the question, how often do fifth wheel hitches of any type fail during accidents?

[ralphnjoann]

Searching_Ut wrote:
For those unfamiliar with the Andersen Ultimate hitch, 100 percent of the weight of the trailer is carried by the bed of the truck, and none is carried on the ball in the bed of the truck. The truck bed ball is used as an anchor point with a pin that goes under the ball to anchor the hitch. You then tighten a bolt on on top of the tube that pulls a tub within the tube to pre-load the the base tightly against the bed of the truck. The truck bed ball is used for pulling to pull the hitch down, not to support the weight.

The other thing to keep in mind is that all of the pin weight for the trailer is transferred to the two set screws on the pin adapter between the ball and pin. The pin box not being designed to support the weight in a small area rather than distributed across the pin box base plate is what resulted in damage to my bighorn.

Well, for one thing, the Andersen hitch does not cause "100 percent" of the weight of the trailer to be carried by the bed of the truck.

Second, the pin weight is carried by a ball mounted on a cross member secured to the rails of the truck. Snugging down the hitch so it doesn't shift does not place pin weight on the bed. That 40 or so pounds of force is there whether or not a trailer is attached.

Finally, the problems you had with your pin box must not be widespread since yours was the first and only one I have read about on these forums.

[SabreCanuck]

Honestly, I haven't been on this forum for 6 months and the first thing that comes up is you guys and this Anderson topic again. Crazy.

Please also keep in mind that every time you talk about the Anderson, everyone always seems to forget there is a RAIL version that has nothing to do with a gooseneck ball which at the same time means that just cause it's an Anderson doesn't mean the weight is on the ball, box, bed, etc. The weight is spread just the same as any other hitch on the rail version.

[ralphnjoann]

fj12ryder wrote:
I don't know that you could call this a "catastrophic failure". If your trailer comes apart in a crash is that a "catastrophic failure", or the results of the crash? If the frame of your truck deforms after hitting a tree at 70 mph is that a "catastrophic failure" or the results of hitting a tree at 70 mph?

Personally I think the B&W hitch deformed when subjected to extreme forces in a rollover crash. I don't know that subjecting something to forces way beyond its design parameters should lead to surprise when there are problems. If you drive a 20 ton load over a bride rated for 5 tons you shouldn't be surprised when it collapses.

Yeah, I love my B&W hitch. 🙂

Catastrophic failure has nothing to do with surprises, design parameters or the strength of the force that created it. Per one dictionary source, "A catastrophic failure is a sudden and total failure from which recovery is impossible."

[Cummins12V98]

fj12ryder wrote:
"President, B&W HeavyWeight FanBoy Club" 🙂

Yes self appointed title many years ago.

[fj12ryder]

"President, B&W HeavyWeight FanBoy Club" 🙂

[Searching_Ut]

For those unfamiliar with the Andersen Ultimate hitch, 100 percent of the weight of the trailer is carried by the bed of the truck, and none is carried on the ball in the bed of the truck. The truck bed ball is used as an anchor point with a pin that goes under the ball to anchor the hitch. You then tighten a bolt on on top of the tube that pulls a tub within the tube to pre-load the the base tightly against the bed of the truck. The truck bed ball is used for pulling to pull the hitch down, not to support the weight.

The other thing to keep in mind is that all of the pin weight for the trailer is transferred to the two set screws on the pin adapter between the ball and pin. The pin box not being designed to support the weight in a small area rather than distributed across the pin box base plate is what resulted in damage to my bighorn.

[Cummins12V98]

Lets clear things up a bit. The original 18K Companion sat on top of the bed corrugation. If towing with a newer truck (bed thickness is thinner) like my 2011 RAM Dually in the upper weights the base will push fore and aft and cause deflection/dents in the bed. My base also bent. B&W sent me a whole new base with hard plastic filler strips. That fixed the issue. To be clear I used the same base on my 98 RAM towing a combined 20,500# with ZERO deflection issues. I would say bed thickness played a part as they engineered the 18K Companion when beds had some real strength.

Around the time of my base replacement they were engineering the new 20K Companion base that has adjustable support strips that transfer the base directly to the low ribs of the bed and then to the bed cross rails. this system is good to it's rated amount with zero issues.

The Puck mount Companion fixed head and the puck mount slider hitches are the cream of the crop as they tie directly to the pucks that are bolted directly to the frame. ROCK SOLID!

President, B&W HeavyWeight FanBoy Club

[cummins2014]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
IdaD, yes we can disagree and be civil! Seems the part of my OPINION of how they are a quality US manufacturer gets lost in the dust.

No what I think and its apparent, and we shouldn't have to disagree on this. You continually give opinions ,and thats all they can be, on the capacity of the Andersen hitch. You are neither qualified nor an engineer to make the statement " I would consider it for the 250 ,2500 market.

It seems you have switched gears, now we can also discount the 350 ,3500 trucks. I guess that would be regardless of the fifth wheel weight :h . Your original opinion was just the lighter fifth wheels were qualified for the Andersen .

[fj12ryder]

laknox wrote:
...
Also, from personal experience, very early on, I "high-hitched" my entire Companion in the base and didn't realize it was not firmly down against the bed, by about 1". Hell, I even torqued the entire thing! I hitched up my FW and towed it from storage to my house, about 12 miles. Felt a little different, but it handled just fine, and without any damage, whatsoever. Scared the bejesus out of me when I realized what I'd done, though! :E

Lyle

Thanks for posting that, now I don't feel so foolish, or not quite anyway. I did the same thing by pinning the turnover ball in the wrong hole. I noticed some clunking noises and checked everything out and discovered my error. Like you, no damage, not even any dents in the bed from the base rocking. Just the SMH moment.

[laknox]

fj12ryder wrote:
I would imagine the "alt physics" are the same ones that work with a direct gooseneck hitch. The load is supported by the gooseneck ball which is bolted to the Companion base. Pretty easy to understand. The bed will probably deform some as the weight is applied, but only until the weight is supported by the turnover ball, then the weight is supported by the gooseneck/turnover ball structure under the bed, that is bolted to the frame.

EXACTLY!

Lyle