Andersen Ultimate Issues

[Searching_Ut]

I'm coming up on the one year marks with the Andersen Ultimate steel version approximately 5k miles with the Bighorn, a around 800 miles with a Presidential suites. I've given up on the hitch as it's causing damage to both my truck, and my 2016 Bighorn 3270RS. So far the truck bed is pretty much just cosmetic from what I can tell, spray in bed liner flattened/indented. Judging by the bed flex though I feel time won't be good especially if we head to Alaska which is one of our plans.

The bighorn has a Lippert 1621HD pin box, the bottom plate of which isn't up to supporting all of the pin weight on the ends of the two set screws which carry all the load with the Andersen hitch adapter. See photos for issues. Dealer won't deal with the issue, and after approximately 3 weeks Andersen isn't saying anything yet either so being as how I have a long roadtrip planned for the near future, I ended up buying a B&W hitch, which is installed in the truck already, and Reese fifth airborne pin box which should arrive and be installed Monday.









Due to pin box length, ball adapter is installed with ball installed aft of pin. Collapse of pin box base plate was slow and progressive over the miles.

[Me_Again]

Yeah! Build a "more" custom hitch, and maybe service departments will refuse to service a rig with.

[time2roll]

I like the idea of Andersen. Hate to read a thread like this as I plan to have this hitch with my next RV. Andersen may need to start building pin boxes and skip the adapter.

[Cummins12V98]

TxGearhead wrote:
I'm with you on the back issues. I had 2 fusions and now a piece of titanium in my neck. I bought a Harbor Freight engine puller to get my Curt Q20 out of the truck.
One would think that Andersen did a Finite Element Analysis on their hitches. That should replicate most loads the hitch will see and reveal any weaknesses. It's expensive but if I were putting my name on it....

They did the "crush test".

[Cummins12V98]

WTP-GC wrote:
I'm moreover convinced that the OP has/had a bad pinbox. As I've said before, with the design of the adapter, there's a significant a out of force against the kingpin. The flat plate underside of the pin box could not have failed in this manner unless the kingpin bent (which is confirmed by the pictures). With all that we know about how poorly trailer frames are constructed, it would not be out of the question to consider that the pin box was also poorly done.

The "kingpin" did not bend, not really possible.

[TxGearhead]

I'm with you on the back issues. I had 2 fusions and now a piece of titanium in my neck. I bought a Harbor Freight engine puller to get my Curt Q20 out of the truck.
One would think that Andersen did a Finite Element Analysis on their hitches. That should replicate most loads the hitch will see and reveal any weaknesses. It's expensive but if I were putting my name on it....

[laknox]

WTP-GC wrote:
I'm moreover convinced that the OP has/had a bad pinbox. As I've said before, with the design of the adapter, there's a significant a out of force against the kingpin. The flat plate underside of the pin box could not have failed in this manner unless the kingpin bent (which is confirmed by the pictures). With all that we know about how poorly trailer frames are constructed, it would not be out of the question to consider that the pin box was also poorly done.

I don't think it's a "bad" pinbox, but it =is= bad for this application, where the load is highly concentrated on just a few square inches instead of over a much larger area with a conventional FW hitch. I think it's something that Andersen really needs to address, given that the OP has seen similar deforming on a MorRyde hitch. Also, we're talking about an LCI component which I think many of us would agree is marginally built from the get-go, even for a standard hitch.

Lyle

[WTP-GC]

I'm moreover convinced that the OP has/had a bad pinbox. As I've said before, with the design of the adapter, there's a significant a out of force against the kingpin. The flat plate underside of the pin box could not have failed in this manner unless the kingpin bent (which is confirmed by the pictures). With all that we know about how poorly trailer frames are constructed, it would not be out of the question to consider that the pin box was also poorly done.

[minnow]

If it's any consolation to you, please be assured that your negative experience with the Andersen will be touted on every RV, truck and hitch forum across the internet from the "told you so crowd". You my friend are destined for great publicity.

Every single hitch out there will or has had some sort of failure. The Andersen is no different. There is no hitch that works universally for everyone. That's why there are dozens of hitch manufacturers who all tout their hitch is the best one.

[Searching_Ut]

TxGearhead wrote:
If you are concerned about the integrity of the pinbox and hitch I would talk to a welding/fab shop. See if they would do a NDT on the welds. Probably could wet mag all of it if you don't mind paint removal on the pinbox.

Actually, I don't need any NDI testing as I can see issues in a couple areas already visually, and have already decided to change the pin box. It would have been accomplished already, but I ordered one based on a phone call to hearland because the trailer was still at dealer. Heartland said I had a 1621, so I called e-trailer and ordered the 5th airborne that replaces the 1621. (16k Rating). Unfortunately, when I got the trailer back and pulled the shroud it's a 1621HD so I had ordered the bigger pin box. Stupidity on my part I know, and it will cost me shipping both ways.

I am concerned that the dealer chose to say the pin box was useable and chose not to pursue it further. I'm also upset that they also dinged the front corner with the forklift setup they used to move it. Trip to the dealer to look at pin box amongst other issues resulted in replaced hitch adapter, dinged corner of pin box, and a damaged pin box shroud which they ordered. They did own up and even showed me the new adapter they made to tow Andersen equipped rigs with.

As for using the Andersen adapter with a 1621 pin box, I personally don't recommend it and find myself wondering why only one other trailer I looked at with the adapter installed showed similar damage (It was a Mor-ryde pin box). So far I've been lucky with this rig and haven't hit anything bump wise that has re-arranged the insides of the trailer. I do tow on fairly steep hills from time to time, steep enough that even the exhaust brake on my Ram, which is pretty good, isn't enough to hold things in check. Obviously the pin weight would be a lot higher in this situation and the dynamic loads (pounding) would be quite a bit higher.

Again, for me the Andersen is no longer an option. Neither my trailer, or truck are a good choice for use with this hitch. I am disappointed by that however as a light easily removed and installed hitch is something that would fit me great. That said, my new B&W is easily as quick and simple to install, maybe even easier. Other than the weight, it's a fantastic hitch, obviously much more solidly built. Weight wise it's still inside the realms of what I can lift myself, but with several ruptured disks already, and age creeping up on me it's more that I probably should be lifting.

[rskeans]

Me Again wrote:

rskeans wrote:
This has been an interesting read. I tow 19,000 lbs with the Ultimate with zero problems. But I do have a rubber bed mat and a mor-ryde pin box. There seems to be some focus regarding a marginal pin box that has nothing to do with Andersen. I underestimated some RR tracks on an AZ highway last week and really bounced around my 5ver. Other than some broken stuff inside, furniture shifted, broken shelf with the DTV receiver, an MCD shade half off its brackets and a very angry DW, no other damage. Took a close look at the Andersen and all OK. So I can't help but believe that the OP's problems are not related to the Andersen.

So you are saying the Andersen should advise against using their hitch with the 1621 Lippert Pin Box? Or other similarly built pin boxes. Chris

I'm not advising anything. Just a statement of observation. The reader can draw their own conclusion.

[TxGearhead]

If you are concerned about the integrity of the pinbox and hitch I would talk to a welding/fab shop. See if they would do a NDT on the welds. Probably could wet mag all of it if you don't mind paint removal on the pinbox.

[Me_Again]

rskeans wrote:
This has been an interesting read. I tow 19,000 lbs with the Ultimate with zero problems. But I do have a rubber bed mat and a mor-ryde pin box. There seems to be some focus regarding a marginal pin box that has nothing to do with Andersen. I underestimated some RR tracks on an AZ highway last week and really bounced around my 5ver. Other than some broken stuff inside, furniture shifted, broken shelf with the DTV receiver, an MCD shade half off its brackets and a very angry DW, no other damage. Took a close look at the Andersen and all OK. So I can't help but believe that the OP's problems are not related to the Andersen.

So you are saying the Andersen should advise against using their hitch with the 1621 Lippert Pin Box? Or other similarly built pin boxes. Chris

[rskeans]

This has been an interesting read. I tow 19,000 lbs with the Ultimate with zero problems. But I do have a rubber bed mat and a mor-ryde pin box. There seems to be some focus regarding a marginal pin box that has nothing to do with Andersen. I underestimated some RR tracks on an AZ highway last week and really bounced around my 5ver. Other than some broken stuff inside, furniture shifted, broken shelf with the DTV receiver, an MCD shade half off its brackets and a very angry DW, no other damage. Took a close look at the Andersen and all OK. So I can't help but believe that the OP's problems are not related to the Andersen.

[Cummins12V98]

minnow wrote:
I do now wonder if your fiver is too much for the Andersen. That's a pretty good pin weight you have.

His RV is WELL within Andersen's ratings. My OPINION is up to 12K RV is perfect for the Andersen.

[Cummins12V98]

Searching_Ut wrote:
I haven't contacted lippert or heatland about this, but probably should. Dealer claims to have spoken to Andersen and had them say this is "normal" and not an issue. I tried to get specifics from them though and they kind of gave me a blank stare. I've personally contacted Andersen twice by e-mail, twice by phone, and sent them photos. No response to the e-mail, by phone they just said they'd get back to me.

Personally, I don't see how this isn't happening to others when you think about it. Lot of force applied to a pretty small area when you get things rockin and rolling down the road. My pin weight is only around 3k, trailer loaded 14-14.5k with about 1k to go to my GVWR (base weight 12,000 with 2520 on the pin). I have done a lot of mountain road driving where the truck engine brake is straining to hold back the load. I would imagine that is where the dynamic loads are the highest on the pin. For the most part though the roads were pretty good. Shortly though I'm heading out to Seattle, and last time I drove through that area the roads were pretty rough.

Again, I think the question should be why aren't others having this issue? you have several thousand pounds of static weight riding on the end of two set screws. Then you in effect start pounding on the back of the screws as you drive down the road. It really isn't a very good design. Of course the energy is also getting transferred elsewhere, which is why I decided to purchase a suspension style pin box. I didn't have a bad ride or chucking to any extent, but at the same time, I'm hoping to prevent future problems in other areas in the process of taking care of my current hitch issue.

Now, how about constructive brainstorming type stuff and maybe figure out why my pin box failed and others haven't:

1. Is my pin weight maybe higher than most using this hitch?

2. Is it likely I'm driving on different types or roads?

3. Could the factory air suspension on my truck maybe be making the loads different somehow?

4. Bad batch of steel making my pin box exceptionally soft?

5. Problem possibly more common than thought and just not being reported?

Any constructive thoughts?

Your pinbox was not designed to have the load placed on such a small area.