story found here: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/05/10/utah-residents-become-next-to-confront-bureau-land-management-in-growing-debate/#Perhaps this will trigger more BLM land opening up to ATVs. I never understood why hikers and horses are permitted, but not ATVs.

It won't trigger them opening anything, I am afraid.However, it is clear that a growing number of citizens are reaching the point where they believe the BLM needs to be refocused, and their mission re-evaluated, in a very big way.This growing number of citizens, if they unite and get their act together, can trigger a revolution at the ballot box, which can change things...if it goes far enough, and they stay the course, pressuring their representatives at every level to get this bureaucracy under control.I understand their frustration. I spent several years involved in the "working with BLM" game, trying to deal with the absurdities of recreation area management plans, etc. In the end the people lost. The truth, as I experienced it, is that (with few exceptions, the recent victory in Glamis being the biggest of those) there is a culture in the BLM that transcends administrations, and that culture is not one that supports mechanized recreation. In fact, it doesn't support recreation at all. I once heard a highly placed BLM official tell me to my face that, "closing and gating land is much easier than managing it for public access". In general that culture supports gaining control of and then closing as much land as possible. The culture is aligned with the anti-access crowd, and they really don't try to hide it.It is the culture that needs to be changed. Land grabs continue. Look at what is afoot at Veil Lake in Southern California.Anyway, it is nice to see the people starting to get involved in the process.We have a long road ahead of us, but getting involved and getting organized is a great start.

I would say because hikers and horses dont go out with intent to cause destruction. They go out to enjoy the area and its scenic, quiet beauty.We are by no means liberal save the planet activists, but all it takes is a few to ruin it for the rest. Utah and the 4 corners area is beautiful, sacred land, and if it means no atv's to save the areas integrity for generations to enjoy, we are all for it, No, I am not saying atv'rs are trouble makers, we had quads for many years, but there will always be the few who want to vandalize and cause trouble, and they are much more likely to be on a motorized vehicle than foot or horseback.

Nutinelse2do wrote:I would say because hikers and horses dont go out with intent to cause destruction. They go out to enjoy the area and its scenic, quiet beauty.We are by no means liberal save the planet activists, but all it takes is a few to ruin it for the rest. Utah and the 4 corners area is beautiful, sacred land, and if it means no atv's to save the areas integrity for generations to enjoy, we are all for it, No, I am not saying atv'rs are trouble makers, we had quads for many years, but there will always be the few who want to vandalize and cause trouble, and they are much more likely to be on a motorized vehicle than foot or horseback.Just like all those rvers that waste fuel driving from place to place. They are all just a bunch of polluters... gotta love those generalizations. As an avid mountain biker who grew up riding in So California I have heard your same argument only with "motorized" being switched with "bikes". So one weekend we went up and sat on a popular trail and videotaped the entire day. Guess how many bikers cut the trail, discarded trash, or in some other way altered the landscape? 0 Guess how many hikers did the same? 15 Obviously this is not a valid sample size but it sure did sway the city when we presented it to them.

Pedal a off road bike, it's fun, healthy and quite!

My first degree is anthropology and I am aware of the huge amount of damage done to First Nations sites by those in ATV's. Think of it as, how would you like it if some one was driving around the grave yard your grand parents were buried in and whooping it up. This is an area that is culturally sensitive and I don't know that there are grave sites but none the less why can't there be areas preserved from the noise and stink and all too often just plain lack of respect for those that were here first.

ATV riders stand up BLM in Utah | Good Sam Community

nayther
Explorer
May 20, 2014
Dirtclods wrote:
nayther wrote:
O.K. one last post on this

My point was not to single out one group but to make the point that some are not educated in OHV, glad allcool has a B.S. in M.E. as I have a B.S as well, not the point. Education is PARAMOUNT and we are not getting to the non-organized users, THAT'S THE POINT.

As for the victory in Glamis I am fully aware of that, ASA, AMA D37, and others are part of a group called ECOLOGIC and we pay thousands of dollars into ECOLOGIC every year. ECOLOGIC has been working since 2001 to get this done and has succeeded. Yes I DO know. For the record I am District Legislative Officer for AMA District 37, the largest active District in the AMA.

I'm also a District #37 member. I'm also involved in C.O.R.V.A http://www.corva.org/

And OHV Volunteer for SBNF

We all need to be on the same page keeping our trails open!

Yes I know you are, thanks for being an activist and you are correct, united we stand divided we fall, and we've fallen too many times.
Dirtclods
Explorer
May 20, 2014
nayther wrote:
O.K. one last post on this

My point was not to single out one group but to make the point that some are not educated in OHV, glad allcool has a B.S. in M.E. as I have a B.S as well, not the point. Education is PARAMOUNT and we are not getting to the non-organized users, THAT'S THE POINT.

As for the victory in Glamis I am fully aware of that, ASA, AMA D37, and others are part of a group called ECOLOGIC and we pay thousands of dollars into ECOLOGIC every year. ECOLOGIC has been working since 2001 to get this done and has succeeded. Yes I DO know. For the record I am District Legislative Officer for AMA District 37, the largest active District in the AMA.

I'm also a District #37 member. I'm also involved in C.O.R.V.A http://www.corva.org/

And OHV Volunteer for SBNF

We all need to be on the same page keeping our trails open!
BoonHauler
Explorer
May 18, 2014
Another update from the Sierra Access Coalition regarding the Plumas & Tahoe NF.
Sierra Access Coalition wrote:
See www.sierraaccess.com for an update on our lawsuit against the Plumas N.F. Travel Management Plan. The Pacific Legal Foundation (PLF) will be filing the lawsuit in July.

PLF has also filed an appeal to the Tahoe N.F. Travel Management court decision. Please go to http://blog.pacificlegal.org/2014/u-s-forest-service-says-man-nature-peacefully-coexist/ and click "like" at the top of the article. The more "likes" that Pacific Legal Foundation sees on the article, the greater the chances that PLF will view similar issues as ones that are of particular interest to people, and the greater the likelihood that PLF will launch a substantial media campaign when they file the complaint in our Plumas NF lawsuit in July. Please open the link, "Like" it, and forward it to your contacts.
allcool
Explorer
May 17, 2014
eubank wrote:
Humm. I can see that dissenting views are neither wanted nor tolerated in this forum, so I think it's time for me to unsubscribe.
Lynn

Awesome pics on your flickr pages. You're a great photographer. Beautiful pics of our nations pristine wilderness areas.

Just trying to get an idea of where you're coming from...
Do you just hike, or do you use some type of motorized off road vehicle...?

Are you a member of the Sierra Club...?

I myself would like to hear your views, please...

jmo
Bakersfield
Explorer
May 17, 2014
eubank wrote:
Humm. I can see that dissenting views are neither wanted nor tolerated in this forum, so I think it's time for me to unsubscribe.
Lynn

Bring it. What you got?
Bakersfield
Explorer
May 17, 2014
"It’s time too get damn serious about this issue and stand together, get organized, and start serving up a little kick butt ourselves."

I agree. All riders (anything with wheels or track), need to come together, get some funding support from the manufactures, form a PAC and start buying some influence with the politicians. Our new PAC should be called PLACES ( Public Land Access, Conservation, Education, & Service).
BoonHauler
Explorer
May 17, 2014
mustangglp wrote:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CGQQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mtdemocrat.com%2Fnews%2Ftaxpayers-help-fund-environmental-lawyers%2F&ei=xGt2U7afJc3hoATH1IHIDw&usg=AFQjCNG23yBtuSIj_IvgesAz6RrAXlFwhw&sig2=k5_3kt5swLjouz6d7q02SgCenter for Biological Diversity is busy cranking out thousands of lawsuits to close thousands of miles land from public us
and at the same time getting rich off the tax payer
According to the GAO report, payments made to these organizations for the fiscal years 2003 through 2010 came to:

• $5.62 million to the Sierra Club and its legal defense fund called Earthjustice

• $1.7 million to the National Resources Defense Council

• $553,645 to the Center For Biological Diversity

• $535,000 to the Western Environmental Center

• $219,000 to the Environmental

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CGQQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mtdemocrat.com%2Fnews%2Ftaxpayers-help-fund-environmental-lawyers%2F&ei=xGt2U7afJc3hoATH1IHIDw&usg=AFQjCNG23yBtuSIj_IvgesAz6RrAXlFwhw&sig2=k5_3kt5swLjouz6d7q02Sg

I understand that it’s all fun & games to “Flame” each other about whether you roll on two or four wheels but as Mustangglp has so keenly pointed out the other side of this battle, and make no mistake this is a battle, is VERY well organized, VERY well funded, VERY well politically connected, and are DEFINITELY kicking our butts so just keep on joking around guys because I can tell you for damn sure our opponents aren’t!!

It’s time too get damn serious about this issue and stand together, get organized, and start serving up a little kick butt ourselves.

I don’t know if all you southwest OHVer’s are aware but Ocotillo Wells lawsuit looks to be back on again, here’s a quote from another site.

TomJeeps wrote:
Bad news!
Open Riding Lawsuit in Ocotillo Wells Will Go To Court
May 8, 2014- Superior Court Judge Timothy Frawley overruled the demurrers by filed by State Parks stating that the court finds that PEER/DPC have alleged facts sufficient to constitute a cause of action for mandate based relief based on State Parks alleged abuse of discretion in allow an open riding policy.
...
In English this means that the Judge thinks there is enough evidence to allow the case to move forward. Tierra Del Sol and EcoLogic will immediately move to intervene in the case to defend open riding in the park. Please like our Facebook page and check our website for updates.
If you would like to make donations to Tierra Del Sol Desert Safari please do so here! It is now time to fight and unfortunately we need money now. Sorry for such bad news on your Friday.
http://www.tds4x4.com/lawsuit-donations/
At this point we'll be looking for sponsors for a second round of Fight For Ocotillo Wells tshirts and stickers. We're asking $150 from each sponsor and in exchange you'll get your logo on the shirt, logo on the www.FightForOcotilloWells.com website and of course here on the group pages. If you'd like more information please email me: Desiree@FightForOcotilloWells.com
Y-Guy
Moderator
May 17, 2014
eubank wrote:
Humm. I can see that dissenting views are neither wanted nor tolerated in this forum, so I think it's time for me to unsubscribe.
Lynn

Seriously? Give me a break. It's the Toy Hauler forum, what did you expect?
eubank
Explorer
May 17, 2014
Humm. I can see that dissenting views are neither wanted nor tolerated in this forum, so I think it's time for me to unsubscribe.
Lynn
Bakersfield
Explorer
May 17, 2014
That those who had the most to lose did the least to prevent its happening- President Ronald Reagan