Changing to disc brakes

[NuttyTexans]

Am considering having my current brakes (drum) swapped out for a disc brake system. Present systems is not very effective and I have had the brakes adjusted and checked numerous times with no improvement. Has anyone done this and were you happy with the results? Cheaper than buying a new rig and don't know what rigs would have a disc system on them. Thanks and travel safe.

[Me_Again]

MaxBrake and upgrade wiring on the axles. It is hard to explain the difference the MaxBrakes makes until you tow with it.

However with factory controllers now pretty standard and getting better all the time ,it is not an issue for many. Wiring upgrades would still apply however for those with electric brakes.

Chris

[jwduke]

Me Again wrote:

Slownsy wrote:
Not defensive Chris I do have disks on my fiver from new and newer noticed any delay, you described hove disks are activated and I merely asked if there wasn't the same chain off events with drums, which is old fashioned and outdated, have you ever bean at the bottom of mounted and smelled all the burnt brakes, that is why they developed disk brakes.

I have an exhaust brake on our Dodge/Cummins and would not tow without one. I seldom touch the service brakes descending a mountain pass, so I have nice cool service brakes when required. Using service brakes of any kind descending mountain pass leads to over heater brakes. I drove a 8500 gas tanker years ago without jakebrake on the Olympic Peninsula in Washington, never again! I often smelled over heated brakes!

There is now only one top tier aftermarket brake controller in the MaxBrake. Earlier there was the BrakeSmart and Jordon. All three are head and shoulders over controllers like the Prodigy!

Someone early posted 1 second delay for disc brake pump. At 60 MPH that is 88 feet, which is quite a bit of distance.

Chris

We had a Jordon (It died 😞 ) and I really thought it was the BEST, the MaxBrake is the BEST out there now. I think, to the OP, I would try a MaxBrake controller, it made a BIG difference on our heavy Hitchhiker.

[sheff69]

Me Again wrote:

sheff69 wrote:

recycler wrote:
i would see about upgrading your wiring and installing new drum system is lots cheaper and easier to maintain..

It might be, but it is nowhere near as efficient.
In over 30 years and numerous trailers, with reasonably heavy trailers, I've never been able to lock up drum brakes in a panic stop.
With my Kodiaks, I can. I'd rather flat spot tires than repair damaged truck front ends.
I've always maintained my own brakes, and I'd much rather work on greasing slide pins on disk brakes, than trying to adjust drum brakes.

Sheff

Sheff I believe if you research it, that max braking occurs at a point just before the tires lock up and skid. Once the skid starts breaking power goes down quite a bit. That is why modern cars and trucks have anti lock brakes, plus the handling issue.

I trailer with locked up brake is more likely to come around on you and flip on it's side.

So lock up is not GOOD!

Chris

Opinions change, the last I read, the latest research shows that looking at braking distance alone, lock up is better than not. Vehicles with anti lock brakes are not able to stop as fast as those who can lock the wheels. The disadvantage is, you don't have as much control of steering when you are locked up. Note this was on dry or damp roads.
Snow is another matter but with a trailer if I have to worry about snow, I'm in the wrong state.

However, with a large trailer behind me, my steering options are very limited anyway. I don't think I'm going to be swerving hard to miss someone, or taking to the shoulder or grass with my trailer behind me. That would be an invitation to wipe out.

However, I'll take my chances with locked wheels on the trailer. If I had a way, I'd disable the ABS on the truck too. ABS causes more problems than it solves.

Sheff

[jnphobe]

I put disc's on 4 yrs ago, its the best addition you can make. I use the factory controller on an 06 and 11 F-350.

[Cummins12V98]

TheAmRheins wrote:
Cummins12v98 when installing the Kodiak brakes check the stud bolts in the hubs and make sure they are seated properly.I didn't and I had one hub that I had to retorque 6 or 7 times

THANK YOU!!!!

Good suggestion. I changed out the 9/16 to 5/8 studs on my 8K axles that came on our Mobile Suites when I upgraded to the Alcoa 17.5" wheels and GY H tires. They made a distinct sound when the studs were fully seated.

[TheAmRheins]

Cummins12v98 when installing the Kodiak brakes check the stud bolts in the hubs and make sure they are seated properly.I didn't and I had one hub that I had to retorque 6 or 7 times

[Me_Again]

Slownsy wrote:
Not defensive Chris I do have disks on my fiver from new and newer noticed any delay, you described hove disks are activated and I merely asked if there wasn't the same chain off events with drums, which is old fashioned and outdated, have you ever bean at the bottom of mounted and smelled all the burnt brakes, that is why they developed disk brakes.

I have an exhaust brake on our Dodge/Cummins and would not tow without one. I seldom touch the service brakes descending a mountain pass, so I have nice cool service brakes when required. Using service brakes of any kind descending mountain pass leads to over heater brakes. I drove a 8500 gas tanker years ago without jakebrake on the Olympic Peninsula in Washington, never again! I often smelled over heated brakes!

There is now only one top tier aftermarket brake controller in the MaxBrake. Earlier there was the BrakeSmart and Jordon. All three are head and shoulders over controllers like the Prodigy!

Someone early posted 1 second delay for disc brake pump. At 60 MPH that is 88 feet, which is quite a bit of distance.

Chris

[C_Schomer]

Good reading! I just bought a 15k gvw 5er with 6k axles. If the 12x2 brakes are as bad on this next 5er as they were on the previous 5er, I will put on discs. I've had and used double flaring tools for 40+ yrs. so I will make as many hard hookups as possible. I have a Jordan and it responds whichever way I adjust it. Right now I have the trailer leading the truck a little bit which should be ideal if there really is some lag with disc actuators. I would MUCH rather have good disc brakes with 1 second delay than terrible drum brakes with instant response. That doesn't even seem to be worth arguing over if the rv already has lousy drum brakes... what is there to lose? FWIW, the tiny wires in the axle that go to the other side IS a weak point. Enough that the brakes fed by that tiny wire, on my 5er, had very visibly less wear than the shoes on the side with the power. Adding another wire down the other side, increasing, and perfectly equalizing the volts/amps to all 4 magnets made very little improvement. I would use Kodiak disc/calipers for the savings/parts availability but what's the difference in the disc actuator brands? Does the trailer brake circuit with a disc actuator have as much load as with drum/magnets or is it (hopefully) lower? Automotive disc calipers have dust boots over the pins to keep them clean and lubed. Don't the rv calipers have them? Craig

[Slownsy]

Not defensive Cris I do have disks on my fiver from new and newer noticed any delay, you described hove disks are activated and I merely asked if there wasn't the same chain off events with drums, which is old fashioned and outdated, have you ever bean at the bottom of mounted and smelled all the burnt brakes, that is why they developed disk brakes.

[Cummins12V98]

Mike, thanks for the good write up.

I would recommend re bleeding each of your calipers, one second or less is not great. If that does not improve the delay if you wanted to spend the money a MaxBrake was a huge improvement over my built in factory controller. I have no noticeable delay.

My Dad just received his Kodiak Disk kit for his HH Premier 34'. It is on the agenda for this weekend. His kit has the sealed bearings. He also bought the Dexter actuator.

Also once a year pull each caliper and re lube the caliper slide bolts and any metal to metal parts with the proper silicone grease.

[Mike_Stanbro]

I just got finished with a drum to disc conversion and have some feedback on the process of swapping out the brakes and the results.

I have a 34 ft. 5th wheel that weighs 12,400 pounds that I tow with a 2007 Silverado with an integrated brake controller. The trailer has Dexter 6,000# axles and had the typical drum brakes. Wiring to the electric drums was 14 gauge. When I was pulling it out of the axles I thought to myself that is was too small for the job and I suspect that it may have decreased the performance of the electric brakes. At that point I had spent the money on the new brakes and was committed. So, onward with the swap.

Speaking of performance, I could not lock up the electric brakes on a gravel road with the brake controller set to max and manually applying full power from the cab of the truck. In short, the electric brakes sucked. They did not have enough stopping power and they easily overheated. Early on I invested in a Banks SpeedBrake (exhaust brake) so that I didn't have to depend on them. On the positive side, they responded instantly and were very smooth. I feel that the integrated brake controller is a big plus and helps to improve the response and smoothness of the electric brakes. I previously towed the same trailer with a different truck that had a Prodigy controller. The integrated controller was clearly an improvement.

I went with Kodiak discs and a Titan electric/hydraulic controller. I ran rubber lines for all of the hydraulic connections. Parts were purchased from TrailerParts.com and the cost was about $1,400. It took me two weekends of part-time work to install them. A significant amount of time was spent thinking about where to mount the controller and how to route the electrical and hydraulic lines. The time spent wrenching on stuff was about two days. There are several videos on-line that show how to do the drum/disc swap. That part is really easy. I spent as much or more time packing the wheel bearings than I did removing the old and installing the new brakes. I really hate packing wheel bearings! It is a messy, messy job and no matter how hard I try, I manage to get that goo all over my workbench. I used Mobile 1 synthetic grease and I have the kind of axles that have built-in grease fittings. I consumed two tubes of grease. It took over 100 pumps of the grease gun to completely fill the hubs on each wheel. My gripping muscles were pretty sore the next day.

I drove the rig for the first time yesterday and then put some actual miles on it today. The pads will take a few more miles to get completely seated to the rotors but I can say that the difference is already like night and day. I am now able to lock up the brakes on dry payment. The stopping distance is *much* shorter. In the few hours that I have driven the rig, my confidence in the braking action has greatly increased. I found myself applying the brakes at the same point that I would if driving the truck without the trailer.

There is about a one-second lag between applying the brakes and getting full stopping power from the trailer. There has to be some lag as the electric pump on the controller cannot instantly build pressure in the hydraulics. I mentioned earlier that I ran rubber hydraulic lines for the entire system. I suspect that if I had hard lines down the frame and across the axles that the lag would be somewhat reduced as rubber lines can stretch under pressure and could increase the time required to build full pressure. I would be curious to hear from others how much lag they have.

That said, I find the braking response very acceptable. I tried a couple of full-on panic stops from 30 MPH and it was remarkable how much shorter the stopping distance was. The trailer tires locked up on the first test so I dialed back the controller. On the second test they did not lock up and everything came to a smooth, short, no drama stop. Nice! I will need to be careful when I open the cupboards as things have surely moved around and fallen over in them.

I am fairly certain that increasing the gauge of the electric brake wiring would have helped and if I had, I might not have made the switch to discs. Of course, increasing the wire size would not have eliminated the need to adjust the drums or improve their overheating characteristics. Many years ago I made a vow to never buy a car or truck with drum brakes. I service the brakes on my vehicles and drum brakes are a royal pain. If disc brakes had been an option when I purchased my 5th wheel, I would have gone that route from the beginning.

Now that the planning and work is finished, I am glad I made the switch. They are silky smooth, have great stopping power, and will never have to be adjusted. As they are vented rotors, I am confident their ability to absorb heat will also be improved. That is not so much an issue for me as I have the Banks exhaust brake, but it may be important to others.

[Me_Again]

sheff69 wrote:

recycler wrote:
i would see about upgrading your wiring and installing new drum system is lots cheaper and easier to maintain..

It might be, but it is nowhere near as efficient.
In over 30 years and numerous trailers, with reasonably heavy trailers, I've never been able to lock up drum brakes in a panic stop.
With my Kodiaks, I can. I'd rather flat spot tires than repair damaged truck front ends.
I've always maintained my own brakes, and I'd much rather work on greasing slide pins on disk brakes, than trying to adjust drum brakes.

Sheff

Sheff I believe if you research it, that max braking occurs at a point just before the tires lock up and skid. Once the skid starts breaking power goes down quite a bit. That is why modern cars and trucks have anti lock brakes, plus the handling issue.

I trailer with locked up brake is more likely to come around on you and flip on it's side.

So lock up is not GOOD!

Chris

[Cummins12V98]

TheAmRheins wrote:
I must say that with the maxbrake and disc brakes I have no delay. And those I have spoken to that did have fixed that by bleeding their brakes again.

That is a very important part of disk brakes on a RV, proper bleeding.

Bleed the lines take it for a ride and bleed again.

If not done properly you WILL have delay.

[bigdon68]

All I can say is DITTO on Mor-Ryde. Best money we ever spent. The difference is unbelievable.

bigdon68

[restlesswind]

Rather than go the disk brake route,check and see if you can change the drums out and switch to the 3 3/8 x 21 1/4 brake shoes.
The standard 2 X 12 (?) just do not provide enough braking power for our heavier,or even lighter, trailers.
On my 35' Hitchhiker I have the larger brakes along with a MaxBrake controler and a PacBrake exhaust brake.
I have no complaints after over 75,0000 mile of towing.And very little wear on the brake shoes.