Do I really need a sliding hitch?

[drillagent]

I know there are probably lots of opinions on this topic, but that's what I'm looking for. I need the pro's and con's. And I've already heard the "which would you rather pay for, a slider or new truck cab" mantra. I'm hoping for more ideas.

We went to our local Camping World and we met some very nice people. When the topic of sliding hitches came up, we were basically told we really won't need it because we won't have to turn that much.

We have a 2012 F250 diesel Crew Cab short bed SRW. I've already crunched the numbers and figured that it would tow the Montana Mountaineer 375FLF with the 79 degree turning radius front cap that we want to purchace in the near future. So here are my questions.

In what situations will we need to go beyond 79 degrees?

Do we really need 90 degrees of turning radius?

Besides the possibility of going beyond 79 degrees and crushing my cab, why else would we need a sliding hitch?

Any and all info is welcome and appreciated. Thanks.

[Cummins12V98]

aspen2008 wrote:
My experience: I had a F250 when I bought my 2008 (35’) Newmar camper and I was not worried. On the way home I had two busted belts on my rear tires and had to purchase two new tires. Once I got home I weighed my empty camper and found out that my rear tires were 250 lbs from their max rating. When you load your rear tires that close to max rating your truck is what people call mushy, because the sidewall of the tires cannot support the weight. I move up to a GMC 3500 dually and all my problems are gone. When you start pulling 35’+ campers you really need the stability of a dually.

You and I both know this for a fact but there are some that think a 2500/250 will tow anything!

[Krease]

drillagent wrote:
For those questioning my math. Please double check and let me know if I'm wrong

2012 F250 diesel SRW Crew Cab (based on weight ratings published by Ford)
Max towing 15,200
GCWR 23,500
GVWR 10,000
RAWR 6,000
Truck weight 7000 (based on scales with no passengers and full fuel)

2013 Montana Mountaineer 375FLF (based on door sticker)
Dry Weight 11,880
Dry Hitch weight 2120
Max cargo 3680
Max Weight 15,560
Max Pin Weight 2800 (based on 18% pin/RV weight rating from Keystone Website)

So, using the above weight ratings we come up with this.
Assuming 3,000 pounds of cargo based on what the average person loads in RV (found on this website)
RV weight 14,880 (320 pounds below max truck tow rating)
GCWR with 500 pounds for passengers and dogs 22,380 (1120 below max)
GVWR with 500 pounds for passengers and dogs 10,178 (178 above max)
RAWR 2678 pin weight (3322 below max)

Now, I realize that my GVWR is over weight by 178 pounds and the RV weight is close to max, however I'm confident that my truck will be able to handle it. I also don't know where I'm going to get a ton and a half of cargo either. Thanks.

My front living room Montana has a 3100lb pin weight (22% hitch weight). That's not including the hitch, or any water in the tanks. And we have nothing in the living room portion but a few movies. My 3750FL has a GVWR of 16k, and it weighs in ready to camp at around 15k. Front living rooms are more pin heavy than traditional living 5th wheels.

Now as for the short bed portion... I have a Reese slider that I've never had to use. I have the morryde pin box on mine and can even show you pictures with it hooked up from the side if you'd like. I can go to 90 degrees also. Knowing what I know now, I would have not bought the slider, but who knows, maybe my "next one" I'll need the slider.

[aspen2008]

My experience: I had a F250 when I bought my 2008 (35’) Newmar camper and I was not worried. On the way home I had two busted belts on my rear tires and had to purchase two new tires. Once I got home I weighed my empty camper and found out that my rear tires were 250 lbs from their max rating. When you load your rear tires that close to max rating your truck is what people call mushy, because the sidewall of the tires cannot support the weight. I move up to a GMC 3500 dually and all my problems are gone. When you start pulling 35’+ campers you really need the stability of a dually.

[Jayco-noslide]

I think it will be hard to tell until you actually have the whole combo hooked up and encounter a tight turn situation and then too late and expensive to change hitches. I have a shortbox(6 ft.6 in.) and I definitely need the slider to get backed into my driveway plus I use it on the average about once a trip. Sometimes just for precaution. And yet I never had one on a slightly older truck that should have had the same measurements. Can't figure that one out.

[bpounds]

drillagent wrote:
For those questioning my math. Please double check and let me know if I'm wrong

2012 F250 diesel SRW Crew Cab (based on weight ratings published by Ford)
Max towing 15,200
GCWR 23,500
GVWR 10,000
RAWR 6,000
Truck weight 7000 (based on scales with no passengers and full fuel)

2013 Montana Mountaineer 375FLF (based on door sticker)
Dry Weight 11,880
Dry Hitch weight 2120
Max cargo 3680
Max Weight 15,560
Max Pin Weight 2800 (based on 18% pin/RV weight rating from Keystone Website)

So, using the above weight ratings we come up with this.
Assuming 3,000 pounds of cargo based on what the average person loads in RV (found on this website)
RV weight 14,880 (320 pounds below max truck tow rating)
GCWR with 500 pounds for passengers and dogs 22,380 (1120 below max)
GVWR with 500 pounds for passengers and dogs 10,178 (178 above max)
RAWR 2678 pin weight (3322 below max)

Now, I realize that my GVWR is over weight by 178 pounds and the RV weight is close to max, however I'm confident that my truck will be able to handle it. I also don't know where I'm going to get a ton and a half of cargo either. Thanks.

As someone noted, you neglected the curb weight on the rear axle. You might want to go back to the scale and check the front and rear axle weights separately. Then redo the math.

It is true that the rear axle is the same on an F250 and F350SRW. But the tires and wheels may not be. If you've got the base level wheels/tires, they are pretty much maxed out at the rated 6k# RAWR. Also, the new F250's sag really badly compared to a few model years ago. If you think you will load the rear axle up to the F350SRW rating, you will be shocked at how much it sags. So you're looking at air bags to level it out. AND you will be over the F250 rating. Some folks do that every day, so you will have to decide for yourself if you are comfortable with that.

Load your truck up as you would for a camping trip, including passengers, then weigh that rear axle. I think you will be surprised at how much more than 7k# curb weight before you even hitch up the trailer. Also, don't forget to add the weight of whatever hitch you decide to install.

[fivecodys]

bobcouch wrote:
The BEST anyone can promise is "Probably not" and "Almost never" and both have that tiny, iffy possibility that someday you will.
I have a Pullrite Superglide for the same reason I have a spare tire and auto insurance.

Nicely put!
X2 on the Superglide.

Bill

[Robert6401]

I was told the front cap design of my 5er precluded the need for a slider, but I got one anyways. I generally only use it when backing into tight spots. Then, sure enough, one day I was pulling forward making a sharp turn and guess what - I now have a dimple next to the rear glass on the passenger side of my cab. Never thought it would hit going forward. The dimple is a constant reminder to me to 1) use the slider if there is any question, and 2) be mindful of tight forward turns as well.

[tanman32225]

Your driving down the road and behold you see traffic backed up and an officer is rerouting all vehicles due to a bridge out. You have to make a U-turn.. Your now screwed.. there goes your 79 degree theory.
The point being you never know what obstacles lay ahead. As stated before,,, get a Pullrite and be done with it. Nothing to release or to lock. Turn as you please and it does the rest. Don't believe the newer boxes wont hit your cab. Mine most definitely will if my slider didn't move back.

[Ginther]

drillagent - Your truck will tow it just fine. The only difference between an F250 and an F350 (single rear wheels) is the size of the block under the rear leaf springs.

Your 2012 F250 with the 6.7L diesel will handle it no problem. The brakes, chassis and transmission will be more than enough.

Being a short bed I would recommend a slider... more specifically an AUTO SLIDER. I recommend the Demco HiJacker Auto Slide. Hitch it and forget it.

If you get in a bind and have to make an unexpected super sharp turn, the hitch does the thinking for you when it comes to cab clearance. One less thing to worry about.

I have the HiJacker in my short bed F250 and love it. I went with the HiJacker over the SuperGlide because it doesn't require a capture plate on the pin box. So if you needed to have someone else tow your trailer with a regular hitch they could. Think roadside assistance or service dept. It was also a few bucks cheaper than the superglide.

The only drawbacks I can think of with it are:

1. Cost - cost more than a standard hitch or a manual slider
2. Size and Weight - not gonna pull it out of the bed without some help.
3. It doesn't fit under my Roll-n-Lock bed cover. It's about 1/2" too tall. I have to pull the main pin and remove the head section to close the bed cover.

[Dayle1]

drillagent wrote:
For those questioning my math. Please double check and let me know if I'm wrong

2012 F250 diesel SRW Crew Cab (based on weight ratings published by Ford)
Max towing 15,200
GCWR 23,500
GVWR 10,000
RAWR 6,000
Truck weight 7000 (based on scales with no passengers and full fuel)

2013 Montana Mountaineer 375FLF (based on door sticker)
Dry Weight 11,880
Dry Hitch weight 2120
Max cargo 3680
Max Weight 15,560
Max Pin Weight 2800 (based on 18% pin/RV weight rating from Keystone Website)

So, using the above weight ratings we come up with this.
Assuming 3,000 pounds of cargo based on what the average person loads in RV (found on this website)
RV weight 14,880 (320 pounds below max truck tow rating)
GCWR with 500 pounds for passengers and dogs 22,380 (1120 below max)
GVWR with 500 pounds for passengers and dogs 10,178 (178 above max)
RAWR 2678 pin weight (3322 below max)

Now, I realize that my GVWR is over weight by 178 pounds and the RV weight is close to max, however I'm confident that my truck will be able to handle it. I also don't know where I'm going to get a ton and a half of cargo either. Thanks.

You forgot the actual truck weight on the rear axle. Dry, it is probably around 2800 lbs. Loading with fuel, passengers, hitch and misc., it is probably around 3200 lbs. So, you are actually very close to max load on the truck's rear tires.

Also, not sure how the 18% pin weight was determined, but generally loaded pin weight percentage will be higher than the dry pin weight percentage. That is because so much of the basement storage and bedroom storage is much closer to the pin than to the trailer axles.

[powderman426]

billkaufmann wrote:
I have a Reese Sidewinder on my rig.
My TV is a Dodge short bed. At 90 degrees I still have 9" clearance.
However, I very seldom get to the 90 degrees. I am very happy with the Sidewinder. I heve scars on both sides of my cab, Got those when I had a Reese slider that did not work properly.

Yep or the Reese Revolution pin box. And for some there is the added benefit of how it turns while backing up. It should seem closer to acting like a trailer as the pivot point is moved back nearly 2'.

[M_GO_BLUE1]

Can you tow it? YES
Can you tow it safely? NOT A CHANCE

The pin weight of that fifth wheel is way too much for a 3/4 ton truck...

[drillagent]

For those questioning my math. Please double check and let me know if I'm wrong

2012 F250 diesel SRW Crew Cab (based on weight ratings published by Ford)
Max towing 15,200
GCWR 23,500
GVWR 10,000
RAWR 6,000
Truck weight 7000 (based on scales with no passengers and full fuel)

2013 Montana Mountaineer 375FLF (based on door sticker)
Dry Weight 11,880
Dry Hitch weight 2120
Max cargo 3680
Max Weight 15,560
Max Pin Weight 2800 (based on 18% pin/RV weight rating from Keystone Website)

So, using the above weight ratings we come up with this.
Assuming 3,000 pounds of cargo based on what the average person loads in RV (found on this website)
RV weight 14,880 (320 pounds below max truck tow rating)
GCWR with 500 pounds for passengers and dogs 22,380 (1120 below max)
GVWR with 500 pounds for passengers and dogs 10,178 (178 above max)
RAWR 2678 pin weight (3322 below max)

Now, I realize that my GVWR is over weight by 178 pounds and the RV weight is close to max, however I'm confident that my truck will be able to handle it. I also don't know where I'm going to get a ton and a half of cargo either. Thanks.

[bobcouch]

The BEST anyone can promise is "Probably not" and "Almost never" and both have that tiny, iffy possibility that someday you will.
I have a Pullrite Superglide for the same reason I have a spare tire and auto insurance.

[samsontdog]

My son has a slider in his TV and never used it one time in 10 years although the one time that he should have was when a friend with 32 years of towing RVs
told my son "you don't need to engage the slider as you have plenty of room" he busted out the rear window of his new truck {at that time}