Facing a conundrum, what to do?

[ElCaminoManT]

The wife and i have been going to the Northwood dealer here to look at the Arctic Fox 29-5k 5er for about a year now. we really like that one and find ourselves always compare other products to it. we just sold the super c so now looking way more seriously at options. factoring everything in this time and since it is well known how heavy the AF units are I'm also checking other options. have found and looked at the Jayco Eagle 319mlok as is basically a lighter, slightly lower profile, and less expensive 'twin' to the AF. i know they are not technically direct competitors because they are on quite different quality levels from each other.

being that the AF is about $20k more expensive and ~3-4k lbs heavier at least, its hard to not strongly consider the Jayco. I'm just worried if we did go with the Jayco that i would always feel like i settled or sold myself short by not getting the AF since i know the quality of the AF is known to be so much better, especially in what counts, the structure and frame. that being said, the Jayco felt pretty darn solid under my feet and had a few design features that i actually prefer over the AF as they make more sense for us. registration and insurance fees are reflective of the unit cost and play into the overalls as well.

also, we are looking strongly into going full time for a year or 2 in the (hopefully) near-ish future to figure out where we eventually want to relocate to. i know the AF can handle this, can the Jayco?

dang it, what the heck am i supposed to do here?

[ElCaminoManT]

I really appreciate all the feedback! I'm going to reply to each as best I can...

Downunda; this is why I posted this topic and question. Generally speaking, you get what you pay for. It's just is the $20k difference worth it? It's still an RV no matter what. I plan to keep whatever we buy for at least 10 years.

bucky; we will always be RVers in some fashion. Wherever we end up relocating to, we will still RV as we do now, in the weekender fashion along with the week long or 2 week trips throughout the year.

DutchmenSport; the wife is equally fine with either option. Each one has it's own strong points that she likes but she is a-ok with either one. She has said numerous times that it is up to me since I'm the one pulling it around and dealing with the mechanics of it.

rhagfo; that is another big plus with the Fox that I observed early on in the searches and am well aware how important it is for full-time living which is why it has been such a strong contender for us. Aside from it just being plain comfortable to be in. It has always just felt like home whenever we step inside. The Jayco also feels nice, we just haven't spent much time in one yet.

Veebyes; I would much prefer a used unit and I've been looking however 2 issues so far: 1-AF units are very limited on the used market. Their production numbers are so low compared to what comes out of Indiana that there just is not many units to go around. It also seems people that buy them, keep them and don't turn around and sell them like other rigs. 2-the 319 floorplan from Jayco is new for this year so there are not used units to be had yet. Given time I'm sure they'll start to pop up.

ACZL; I'm a gut feeling guy but since I'm a realist and a numbers guy, I look into and study things likely too deep. Looking at the cost (purchase, registration and ins all together), the weight, the size, how things are built, manuf reputations, etc are why I'm so hung up right now. Both units would work a-ok, I'm just trying to avoid an unhappy, regretful experience like with what I had with the super c (long story).

troubledwaters; sure it could be done however I want to end up in something that I do not have to do that sort of work to. When I was younger I might've done that if necessary but no thanks now. My time is way to valuable now.

Lantley; I'm 260lbs / 6'5" so I generally can feel things pretty well in my feet as soon as I step foot in the door. I was expecting the Jayco to feel a bit less sturdy than the AF but my feet seem to say it felt pretty solid. We're weekender status for now but aiming to do the full-time in the future at some point for a period of time. After that we would go back to weekender status.

4x4ord; there just doesn't seem to be any on the market that we are looking for. Also I would really like to be the one in charge of the roof and seals from the get-go with buying new. The super c we just sold had delamination issues because the original owner did not keep up on it correctly.

jmtandem; exactly why the Fox is so strong on our list.

MarkTwain; if we were only weekenders without the possibility of going full-time, I would go for the Jayco without question. But because of the full-time goal, the AF is a key player here.

laknox; we looked at them at the Pomona show but they did not do anything for us so that's only as far as it went.

downtheroad; my truck would handle it, but it would be at the limits and can make for tiring travels. I'm not ruling out converting it to a dually if needed. I have no desire to replace the truck, I've owned it since new and know every one of its quirks. It's also paid off and the new trucks have way to many things that can go wrong. (thanks EPA)

ScottG; thanks, I appreciate the feedback on your experience!

BB_TX; exactly, 20k is a big chunk which is why I'm looking at the Jayco as an alternative option. I know it'll always be the 'what if' no matter what, I just would really like to avoid the 'I should've bought the AF instead' or on the flip side 'was it worth the extra $$ to buy this thing instead of the Jayco?'
The cost figures are also part of this, not just purchase but yearly expenses (registration and insurance) which are less on the Jayco.

Durb; been looking, AFs don't seem to come up used much at all. There are other floorplans but not the one we want. One did come up but it seems to be quite used, not just gently.

time2roll; exactly. Not looking to get rich (this is an RV afterall, not exactly an investment!), just looking to enjoy life and minimize the 'should have I' or 'what if' etc. I know, never can eliminate it.

[time2roll]

Downunda wrote:
Benjamin Franklin: The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten. “

I'm a strong believer in this age old saying. You buy the Jayco and you will always wonder!

Also said 'a penny saved is a penny earned'

[Durb]

The AF is 102" wide which is 6.3% more than the 96" wide Jayco. The AF weighs 12,369# as compared to Jayco's 10, 710#, over 15% more. It appears the AF is considerably more trailer and should cost more. I doubt that Jayco is getting their weight savings from the extensive use of aluminum and high strength steel, my guess is just less substance.

Try to find a used AF and see what they are asking for them, that might help with your decision.

[BB_TX]

First thing is the financial aspects of it. $20,000 is not an inconsequential amount. The AF may be better quality, but $20K better?

And if the heavier pin weight of the AF is too much for your current truck payload rating, then you may need to upgrade that as well.

Don't put yourself in a financial bind. But if money is no object, then get whatever makes you, or more importantly your wife, happy.

[ScottG]

Don't feel like your getting an extremely high quality unit by getting a AF - you aren't. They are thrown together with the same lousy attention to detail as the others. What you will get is more windows, better pump, converter, etc. The chassis frame of the AF is better but the house frame isn't. Unlike soem other brands, NW does not make it a rule to frame around all windows and openings which can result in cracks later on as it has in other brands. However, there are a lot of little details that are nicer but the build quality isn't one of them.
Factory support depends on the strength of your dealer.

There was a time when I would not have even considered a Jayco but they have come a long way.

[laknox]

rhagfo wrote:

Downunda wrote:
Benjamin Franklin: The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten. “

I'm a strong believer in this age old saying. You buy the Jayco and you will always wonder!

troubledwaters wrote:
I can do a lot of repairs for $20,000.00.

You can't build a better frame under the Jayco for $20K.

snipped...

The cost difference between the bare AF frame and an LCI-made Jayco frame is likely <$1,000 with most of the difference in =good= labor building a =good= frame vs mediocre labor building a mediocre frame. Betcha materials difference isn't $150-200 between the 2.

Lyle

[downtheroad]

We have an Arctic Fox. We have had 3 previous travel trailers all about the same length. (Trail Lite, Fleetwood Prowler, and Komfort.) The AF is much heavier, and was more expensive. It also has much better fit and finish and better overall quality.
We use ours a lot but are not full timers. Ultimately your choice. The Jayco Eagle line are very nice units, but they are not Arctic Foxes.

Good luck with your choice. You do have the perfect truck to handle the Fox.

[laknox]

DutchmenSport wrote:
Which one does the wife like? That's really all that matters!

More than likely, she's all about the floor plan, the color of the walls, the reachability of the cabinets. No doubt, you are all about the weights, costs, and logistics. In the end, it's all about what the wife wants.

Sounds like you'd have no problem logistically with either one.

x2!!! :B

Lyle

[laknox]

ElCaminoManT wrote:
The wife and i have been going to the Northwood dealer here to look at the Arctic Fox 29-5k 5er for about a year now. we really like that one and find ourselves always compare other products to it. we just sold the super c so now looking way more seriously at options. factoring everything in this time and since it is well known how heavy the AF units are I'm also checking other options. have found and looked at the Jayco Eagle 319mlok as is basically a lighter, slightly lower profile, and less expensive 'twin' to the AF. i know they are not technically direct competitors because they are on quite different quality levels from each other.

being that the AF is about $20k more expensive and ~3-4k lbs heavier at least, its hard to not strongly consider the Jayco. I'm just worried if we did go with the Jayco that i would always feel like i settled or sold myself short by not getting the AF since i know the quality of the AF is known to be so much better, especially in what counts, the structure and frame. that being said, the Jayco felt pretty darn solid under my feet and had a few design features that i actually prefer over the AF as they make more sense for us. registration and insurance fees are reflective of the unit cost and play into the overalls as well.

also, we are looking strongly into going full time for a year or 2 in the (hopefully) near-ish future to figure out where we eventually want to relocate to. i know the AF can handle this, can the Jayco?

dang it, what the heck am i supposed to do here?

Have you checked out any of the KZ Durango/Durango Gold FWs? After a 2 year search, we bought a KZ Durango 1500 over the Jayco Eagle HT that was #2 on my short list.

Lyle

[MarkTwain]

Condundrum???
In my opinion, a critical question would be, which trailer would best service my RV needs based on occasional RVing VS full time RVing????

[jmtandem]

also, we are looking strongly into going full time for a year or 2 in the (hopefully) near-ish future to figure out where we eventually want to relocate to. i know the AF can handle this, can the Jayco?

The AF is much more full time friendly. CCC, and tank capacities are huge issues with full time living.

[4x4ord]

The Jayco maybe doesn't need a heavier frame than what it has. The heavier the trailer the heavier the frame required. An Arctic fox frame would likely be too light under a Mobile Suite just like a MS frame would be too light for a New Horizons.

[4x4ord]

I'd definitely go with the AF when I'm spending your money. When we're spending our money we go for better quality and buy used. Why not buy a slightly used Arctic Fox?

[Lantley]

troubledwaters wrote:

rhagfo wrote:
You can't build a better frame under the Jayco for $20K.
...

I sure can. I can weld a stiffener plate under the current I-beams for about $2,000.00 and have $18,000.00 left over.
I can slide the current I beams out and slide new ones in for about $5,000.00± (I've seen it done first hand).

Let's be realistic. The average Joe is not going to reweld their frame to make it stronger.
The Arctic Fox is known for its in house built frames that are more substantial than the competition.
If the OP is considering going full time this fact salone becomes the deciding factor between the Fox and the Jayco.
If the OP were just a weekender the difference may not matter but as a full timer the additional payload and structural strength is a difference maker.

[troubledwaters]

rhagfo wrote:
You can't build a better frame under the Jayco for $20K.
...

I sure can. I can weld a stiffener plate under the current I-beams for about $2,000.00 and have $18,000.00 left over.
I can slide the current I beams out and slide new ones in for about $5,000.00± (I've seen it done first hand on my own trailer about 10 years ago).
But the simple fact is, frames are almost never a problem requiring such drastic measures anymore.