Full time fifth wheel Insulation confusion

[Ramblin_Rambo]

Hi all. I'm looking to full time in a fifth wheel. I'm a one man show, looking to downsize and travel domestically for a few years.

I'm having a terrible time figuring out how to choose a fifth wheel.

I found my way to the Keystone Montana, which gets good reviews for overall quality. However there are zero comparison websites that show equivalent Forest River or other brand models.

I'm looking for a model with insulation that will help the summer and winter months.

Any full timers out there that can point me towards a specific model or two?

If but a model, then insulation tips to beef up a regular unit?

Thanks

[Njmurvin]

I can only compare my AF with my previous trailers (both Terry) and I will say the difference is substantial.

Full disclosure ... I live in SoCal and mostly camp around here. But occasionally, we camp in the mountains and desert. So, I have experienced some extremes.

I agree that the windows are the biggest problem. With my particular model, the windows seem fewer and smaller than comparable mfrs' models. Less square footage of glass = less heat loss. Adding dual panes into the equation makes this trailer perform very well in the temperature ranges I've experienced (20 - 110 degrees). Anything outside that range and I'll choose to stay home.

[missourijan]

As others have mentioned look for owner's forums for all the brands mentioned in other posts. You are going to get your best info from owners.

[keymastr]

Check out the Glaciar Peak line from Outdoors RV. Made with the same frames as Arctic Fox, (both companies started by Ron Nash), And better built and insulated than the other "4 season" trailers.

[topjimmy]

Me and my wife have Been fulltiming in the NW now for 7 years a lot of it on the Coast with heavy Rain, 60 mph winds, cold, snow etc... in 3 different Montana's a 2004 a 2012 and now my 2015 with very few complaints granted the NW never gets Alaska or Arizona type of extreme weather but we have been cozy in the winter in the 20's and cool in the summer in the 90's so yes you can do it no problem if you do not live in extreme weather

[Goldbrick]

Not sure what your budget would be but you might look into a used Mobile Suites. They are well built with thicker walls and good insulation. If you find one of the smaller ones (32') they're very comfortable for one or two people. We spend 8 or 9 months a year in one and inboth cold and warm temps and are very comfortable. They also have good fresh water and holding tank capabilities. I would guess that you might find one in the $20,000 +- that should be in pretty good shape but older.

[JIMNLIN]

I would check with each brand mfg for the latest on a particular line. Many times construction methods change in mid year models and from year to year.
One thing we see when searching mfg websites is not all trailers have the same wall/floor/roof thickness.

mfg clicky link
Good place to start.

[theoldwizard1]

Ramblin_Rambo wrote:
I'm looking for a model with insulation that will help the summer and winter months.

If you are going to do a lot of camping in cold weather (below 50 at night), look for models that SPECIFICALLY offer a "cold weather" or "4 seasons" package. When it get down to freezing or below, your have to worry about fresh water line freezing as well as gray and black water.

[memtb]

There are only a few units that have decent capabilities....Arctic Fox being one.
If you are willing to go used...you have much more to choose from, at a much lower price than new.
Consider, Teton Homes (-20 F guarantee), Excel ( -20 F guarantee), some of the Carraige units), New Horizons, some of the NuWay products.

We can testify for the Tetons....have spent many days in ours at and below - 20 F ( a few at -30 F and colder). You will use a lot of propane though. On our last boondocking trip (3 weeks during November in Wyoming) we averaged approximately 4 gallons/day propane consumption. But, the temperatures were mild....most nights between 2 F and 15F, and a few days getting up to 30 to 35 F. It does pretty good in the heat also!

[elkfarmer]

Teton only had 1.5" of insulation. Never heard anybody say anything about the trailers not performing in extreme temps. NUWA didn't have thick walls but still performed well. Arctic Fox has 2" walls but the foam is a heavier and more dense variety. Not as dense as the blue or what Alpenlite used but more dense than anybody else as far as I can find currently in production(not counting the customs). Not sure of the foam used in Luxe Gold yet. Seals around the slides are just as important. Again, Alpenlite and Teton used very thick and wide seals that would not allow any drafts. Arctic Fox at least uses better seals than anyone else out there. They are twice as thick as the run of the mill seals used on everything, including DRV. I have seen a few NUWA Champaigns with the thick seals. Don't know if that was an option or folks did it aftermarket. With all that said the best full time coaches I have been in are still the wood framed trailers...Excell, Travel Supreme, etc. People tend to get caught up in inflated R values. My Newmar is only supposed to have R9 sidewalls but it is and was better than the DRV Select Suites I had for a while. Huge difference especially in windy weather. The Newmar is not as tight as the Alpenlite was but the Arctic Fox is better than the Newmar and Select Suites but not as not as good as the Alpenlite. These are the only four I have owned to compare.

[WTP-GC]

Aridon wrote:
We picked Grand Design because the owners forum was filled with happy customers with little issues. Ultimately we felt that was the best way to pick a manufacturer outside of floor plan and price with are the two other components.

When it came to floor plan they had the better version compared to the other manufactures and on price they were upper middle market which was where we wanted to be.

After just going through this process, I would tend to agree with the methodology. If you visit the GD Owner's forum, you'll surely see that folks have issues (like all manufacturers), but what I found is that the reported problems were all very similar to each other. In other words, many people were experiencing the same set of issues vs. having many people experiencing a large multitude of various issues. With that information in hand, I can be a better consumer when it comes to the PDI inspection.

GD makes some pretty awesome claims on their website regarding insulation and their so-called "4 seasons" capabilities. Having not really been able to judge for myself whether or not that's true, I'll refrain from any current commentary on the matter.

But to the OP's point about living in it, it's my understanding that GD will not void the warranty for full-timers. Again, that's what I've been told but haven't verified (nor do I care to verify because that's not our intent).

[Aridon]

They are all pretty similar.

We picked Grand Design because the owners forum was filled with happy customers with little issues. Ultimately we felt that was the best way to pick a manufacturer outside of floor plan and price with are the two other components.

When it came to floor plan they had the better version compared to the other manufactures and on price they were upper middle market which was where we wanted to be.

So take a look at floor plans, find something you like.

Then take a look at different manufactures that offer similar floor plans.

Finally look at price.

Then visit the top two or three owner forums and compare what you see.

When we did it, night and day difference.

We've never had an issue in SW Fl with RV's staying cool even in summer. We've never had issue in temps as low as near 0F either when traveling. Obviously the more extreme, the more $ but if an extra $100 is going to keep you from where you want to be you'll end up spending more than that traveling to somewhere else.

In other words, it isn't a BFD.

[valhalla360]

If you are staying at campgrounds, really doesn't matter much. The air/con will just run a little more.

If you get into mildly cold weather an electric heater will effect the same thing.

If you get into bitter cold weather...drive south.

[dblr]

Check out the new River Stone and their Legacy line, they have 3 14" walls but with any rv extra measures are needed for extreme cold, Teton was one of the best for cold but finding a one in good shape for sale might be tough.

[goducks10]

donn0128 wrote:

TXiceman wrote:
Look at the Arctic Fox line if you want a good 4 season RV. Forget Keystone, Thor and Forest River and their Polar and Arctic packages.

Ken

Foxes are still built with 2x2 sidewalls, so insulation values are still the same. The difference is AFs dont use Lippert frames, and are better put together.

The only thing that separates AF from the rest is the frame. AF isn't made any better any where else. Plenty of disgruntled customers on the AF forum. Sign of the times I suppose. Every MFG is cranking out RV's as fast as they can.
One thing to AF's credit is they don't tout fictitious R values. I think they tout 18 for roofs and ceilings. Not the 30-40 garbage that many do.
When looking for 4 season RV's you really have to rethink the 4 season part. None will be comfortable in Death Valley in the summer or Anchorage in the winter.