Gap in the 2nd deck moulding when hooked

[alcsiobc]

I have an Keystone Avalanche 2011 , 38'for 4.5 years now. Like the unit very much.

A problem developed over time, when I hook it the the pickup, the moulding running from the bottom of the second deck down to the landing gear separate itself from the wall. (see pictures) Here we ca see the gap

When I un-hook it return to its place.

Is this normal ? Can it be fix ? Any idea at what cost ? Is this dangerous (I doubt it) ?

I added long screws but didn't do anything...

[Dayle1]

Glad to hear that you kept after the problem and came up with a fix. Too many owners will either trade the unit or let the problem get much worse.

[FlatBroke]

Thanks for the update. Wish more OP would end up this way.

[alcsiobc]

Final fix.

I finally fix the gap. Here's the pictures https://plus.google.com/photos/112375037924092473550/albums/6143202913736773041?authkey=COG_8aGq06S2pwE

On my way up to Canada I stopped at Keystone and saw how my trailer was built. So it gave me a very good understanding on how it was made, therefore I could plan my fix.I repaired it by opening channels in from the interior and glued a 2x6 to the external walls, then installed lag bolts from the bottom. No more gap and nothing moves (or everything move at once, as it was when new). At the same time I replaced the fibreglass insulation by solid 1 inch blue styrofoam. Costs me about $30 plus my time. The most time was spent in removing and reinstalling the drawers and shelf on the right side of the trailer.

Thanks all for your answers and comments.

Claude,

[TXiceman]

Yours sounds a lot like the problem we had with our Cameo. Kansas RV took the siding off the left front corner and braced the sidewall and frame intersection.

I'll try to send photos on a PM to you as they are not hosted on the net.

Ken

[Dayle1]

alcsiobc wrote:
UPDATE :

We also measured the deflection which is 1/4 of an inch from one end to the other.
They also assured me that my pin box is solid... so nothing dangerous.

The problem is that the 1/4 inch veneer on which is the external fibreglass is, is moving causing the gap. Looks like the bond between the aluminum frame and the external is broken. So I don't think this can be fix easily. Any suggestion is welcome ! By the way the aluminum 2x2 wall frame are well supported and do not move at all !


Claude,

There are lots of ways to measure deflection, some more accurate than others. If the deflection is really just 1/4 inch, that is great. But if it is really that small, then you shouldn't be having a problem. Sounds like you understand the symptom is with the exterior skin, but bottom line is something else is causing it to move and that something else is moving as much or more than the skin moves. The best method I used was a laser beam attached to the exterior skin at one of the side basement compartments, then a long pole mounted on top of the pin box with a yard stick hanging from it.

If both sides show the same failure, it is possible that inadequate adhesive/curing was used to attach the wood veneer to the aluminum studs.

Maybe two repair options. First, make a vertical cut thru the exterior skin and veneer about where the landing legs are located, remove this section from the studs, buy replacement panels and glue them onto the studs using the same adhesive Keystone used. Second option, remove the interior veneer skin and insulation, then either push out the exterior skin enough to inject adhesive between it and the existing studs, or use adhesive on new studs next to the existing studs and then screw the two studs together. The new studs could be wood, which would bond better with the veneer. Finally replace insulation and interior skin.

Click on 'my rig photos' and check out the pics in the 'frame repair' folder.

[alcsiobc]

UPDATE :

I removed completely the plastic, the isolation the door etc.. under the deck. Had access to all the welding. I hired a professional welder, which confirmed that all the welds where in good shape. We also measured the deflection which is 1/4 of an inch from one end to the other.
They also assured me that my pin box is solid... so nothing dangerous.

The problem is that the 1/4 inch veneer on which is the external fibreglass is, is moving causing the gap. Looks like the bond between the aluminum frame and the external is broken. So I don't think this can be fix easily. Any suggestion is welcome ! By the way the aluminum 2x2 wall frame are well supported and do not move at all !

I did re install everything and installed the moulding when the weight was on the pin, this way the gap is closed. Still moving but much less than before.

Thanks everyone for the help

Much appreciated

Claude,

[kennethwooster]

We have a dealer in Amarillo that is very capable of these kind of repairs. Many years of every repair out there. Ive had them weld and whe they finish it is right.

[TXiceman]

It is not near you, but an excellent shop for major structural repairs is Kansas RV Center in Chanute, KS. This is the old NuWa HitchHiker plant, so they do know how to repair them.

We had our last Cameo repaired there for a similar problem. It had to have the left front side wall pulled back and rebuilt the frame. The cost was about $2700.

Ken

[Dayle1]

alcsiobc wrote:
OK, I get it... where should I go to have this fix ? I'm presently in Van Horn TX, heading south to Mercedes TX. Any suggestion ?

Thanks,

Claude

You need an RV dealer with indoor repair facilities. They can remove the trim, drop the chin panel and if necessary remove the front cap. On mine, once all the screws were removed and caulk separated, they just tilted the cap up away from the frame and propped it up with a short 2x4 off the pin box rather than taking it off completely. If the dealer doesn't have a certified welder, then a mobile welder will be needed. In my case, a Lippert mobile welder came from 150 miles away, but that was because it was a warranty repair. He had a Lippert drawing of the frame and had pre-fabricated extra steel per Lippert headquarters. You will need a local welder so he can first inspect the damage and then prepare new structural steel to make the frame repair. There are also special bolts that attach the aluminum wall framing to the steel frame and most likely, the holes in the aluminum have already been wallowed out due to the flexing, so new bolts and new locations will be needed. After the welder is finished, the RV dealer can reinstall and re-caulk everything.

Just installing/replacing bolts will not be a permanent solution.

[Old-Biscuit]

What you have is sidewall and forward frame separation.

The sidewalls sit down on the horizontal portion of 5vr frame and are secured to that horizontal frame via bolts/lag screws thru bottom and/or thru side plates.

The bolts/screws have broken. When you raise the front landing gear and the weight of 5vr is applied to hitch the sidewalls lift from the front causing that gap.

The overhang panel around pinbox will need to be removed exposing the pinbox structure and the sidewall plates.
Extra holes will need to be drilled thru horizontal frame side wall plates in a 'W' pattern and new lag bolts installed plus a some 2" angle iron sections welded to secure sidewall plates to horizontal frame members.

Plus you will need to brace/support pinbox structure as needed IF you find flex issues.


The 'empty' holes are OEM where lag bolts had broken

[64thunderbolt]

I read a post some time back where a guy was on I-10 in Indio, Ca when it collapsed onto his truck. Had it towed and found a local welding shop to do the work. He was stuck there for I think 3 days. Then had to deal with the damage to the truck bed. They all flex a little but I have a lippert chassis and always check my sidewalls after reading that post. Find the nearest large rv dealer and talk to them. Good luck.

[alcsiobc]

OK, I get it... where should I go to have this fix ? I'm presently in Van Horn TX, heading south to Mercedes TX. Any suggestion ?

Thanks,

Claude

[Dayle1]

As stated, there are plenty of cases of 5th wheel frame failures. Either broken welds or broken metal, especially the front cross members. Many of these are on older frames with fairly straight front caps and the front crossmember is straight. But units with notched front caps also have a notched front cross member. But more significant is the spacing between front and rear cross members that secure the pin box. On older frames the spacing is about 24 inches. On newer frames, with the notch, the front crossmember attaches to the side frame rails just a few inches ahead of the rear cross member.

While I don't have your brand or model, I measured flex about 3 X more than what is considered acceptable. My 2011 was less than 6 months old when Lippert agreed to fix the problem which involved removal of the front cap and dropping the chin plastic, followed by some additional bracing. Within a month of fixing my unit, Lippert changed the frame design on new units.

Since mine was fixed, I can't say for sure the likely point of failure. But besides the classic failure points around the pin box area, it is also possible that the main side rails below the bedroom walls are failing, anywhere from the pin box back to above the landing legs. This is especially likely given the moulding separation, since failures in the pin box area frequently show damage to the front cap and bedroom closet.

Cost can easily be $5000, it is dangerous and if not fixed now, repair costs will only go higher.

[donn0128]

Oh yea, you have a Lippert frame failure. DO NOT TOW ONE MILE FURTHER! Have it taken to a qualified repair facility to be stripped and repaired correctly. This is an extremely dangerous situation and not a DIY project unless your a certified welder.