I'm in the market for a 10-15 year old used toy hauler. I'd like to spend $6-8k on one. The book value on these units suggests that I have sufficient budget and just have to find the right one, but I've had very little luck finding any units priced anywhere even close to book. I thought the book just be low, but I inquired with the bank and they will not loan more than NADA high retail for any unit, so apparently they think the book means something. What can I do to make sure I don't pay too much for a well used trailer?I'm looking for ~30 feet, probably 5th wheel, with a generator. Other features not important.

It's like buying anything else - find the TH you like and make a reasonable offer. Be prepared to negotiate. When you and the seller are satisfied then you have your TH.

Part of what you are fighting is that a private seller is often upside down on their RV and hoping to get what they owe. If it's a dealer then you are dealing with their markup. As azdryheat said you need to do your research and make your offer, and be ready to walk away. Spend some time checking RV trader and other sites to get an idea of asking prices. Sites like crankyape.com and pplmotorhomes.com are good ones to use.Beyond the price you want to make sure you don't get a lemon. If you know how to do an inspection you can find Pre-Delivery inspections all over the internet just search for 'rv pdi' if you don't then you can hire an inspector.

azdryheat wrote:It's like buying anything else - find the TH you like and make a reasonable offer. Be prepared to negotiate. When you and the seller are satisfied then you have your TH.That sounds like a great plan, but I find it a bit off-putting when a dealer's website lists a unit that, for example, high retail is $11,900, and they have it listed for $16,000. What that means is that the most I could pay, even if the unit is pristine for its age, is 75% of the asking price. I find it hard to believe that any dealer would create that much "wiggle room" on the price.I hear people saying the word "markup" but I guess I don't quite understand what that means in this context. They aren't paying retail or anywhere near retail for any used unit on the lot. If retail is $10-12k, they are paying $6-7k max and then pricing it at $16k when NADA retail is $10-12k. I think showing up with $10-11k for a unit like that is a pretty hefty profit in any business, but from what I've seen, the dealers don't seem to think so. Unless people are just not doing their homework? Most dealers don't have anything on the lot under $15-20k unless it's a piece of junk they're trying to get rid of "as is." A dealer by me in New Mexico has a unit for sale for $19k that has a book value of about $12k. It's bigger than I'm interested in anyway, but how do you walk in and tell someone they're 40% over book? When I asked the salesman if the price was negotiable, he told me they were "blowing it out" at 40% over NADA high retail. It was and remains a fair condition unit and their asking price is about double what I would be willing to pay. It's still there a month later so I imagine others thought the same thing.Everything I read on the internet says to do your homework, check NADA or similar, etc. And when I was selling my camper, I wasn't even able to get low retail for it as a private party.Something is crazy about used RV prices that I just can't put my finger on. I've even thought about doubling my budget because the units that are 5-8 years old book at $12-15k, but dealers are asking $25-30k for them!I find it hard to believe that these businesses survive entirely on people not looking up the market value of used units and simply relying on other people's insane asking prices, but my experience thus far trying to find one for a reasonable price suggests that might be the case. I hope I'm wrong about this.Out in the west, it can be a 3-400 mile drive just to look at a few units, so showing up and haggling really isn't a practical solution for me at least.

Obviously I don't know a lot about your specific situation but I'm thinking if you need to involve a bank in a 6 - $8000 toy purchase you are "paying too much for a well used trailer." I think in many cases used trailers on the dealer lots were almost donated to the dealer when the previous owners traded their old trailer in for a new one. I would have no problem offering 40% off the asking price on a 15 year old trailer. If you get laughed at leave your name and number and try again at the next dealer.

4x4ord wrote:Obviously I don't know a lot about your specific situation but I'm thinking if you need to involve a bank in a 6 - $8000 toy purchase you are "paying too much for a well used trailer." I think in many cases used trailers on the dealer lots were almost donated to the dealer when the previous owners traded their old trailer in for a new one. I would have no problem offering 40% off the asking price on a 15 year old trailer. If you get laughed at leave your name and number and try again at the next dealer.Maybe I actually will try this. I guess I find it so dishonest when someone lists a trailer that is worth $5500-6500 for $9000 that I don't think they'll deal at all. The reason I started this thread is that I really wondered if this is common or not. I do not need to involve a bank at all, I just have a hard time figuring out what trailers are really worth. There are dozens or hundreds of brand names (although there might be 4-5 companies that make the bulk of them) and no real way to tell what they sell for. The guy who bought my camper from me said he ordered his toy hauler (new) from some place in Michigan and they delivered it to his door over 1,500 miles away because he couldn't find that great of a deal locally. I sold my camper for a fair price and I'm just looking to buy another one for a fair price. I had always thought "high retail" was only for the most pristine of units, but then I see units that are not in terrible shape but definitely need work with asking prices at double or more of their NADA value. Personally I'd rather have one that needs some work and save some money if I had the choice; wheel bearings, grease, brakes, etc., are cheap.I get the vibe that many dealers are using their own money to loan people more than market value for their units so that they can sell them for inflated prices. In the year 2018, customers have such easy access to information, I find it hard to believe that can be a sustainable business model. Many of them are trying to push their customers to finance. I don't need financing and would be happy to pay cash right now if I could find the right unit. My budget is flexible if I find a nicer or newer unit than I'm looking for, but right now, I'm hoping to find a 2000-2005 or so unit and I'll upgrade to a nicer one in 5-10 years when I have more money.

How to buy a used toy hauler | Good Sam Community

twodownzero
Explorer
Jan 08, 2019
bullmastifflover wrote:
Congrats, I think we have the same unit. Ours is a 33TB. We bought our 2002 model in 2010 for $9,500. We love ours, so roomy and comfortable. Enjoy!

Mine is a 327TB; not sure if the models are named different things in different years. Just got done winterizing her to make sure she doesn't freeze, although in southern NM, it doesn't get cold for long. Thanks for the kind words.
bullmastifflove
Explorer
Jan 07, 2019
Congrats, I think we have the same unit. Ours is a 33TB. We bought our 2002 model in 2010 for $9,500. We love ours, so roomy and comfortable. Enjoy!
twodownzero
Explorer
Jan 06, 2019
CincyGus wrote:
Congrats on the trailer! On the point of your post, many just have to understand that large "markups" are the norm on such a large purchase of this type. I mean look at the $7000-$10000 off ad's on TV for trucks during truck month or whatever the marketing gimmick is every quarter.

These forums are full of people that negotiated 25%-30% off New trailers. Even have a few that if they are honest will tell you they traded in their trailer for about 60% of what they later saw it listed for on that dealer website.

So know that listed or MSRP is a number that no one expects anyone to pay for NEW or USED trailers. Many private owners are having a hard time coming to grips that they are upside down in a 15 year load of their trailer and it's worth about half what they owe on it. Some decide that they want a new trailer bad enough to trade it in, take the loss and move on. The smart ones list it, listen to offers for a while and sell it for somewhere between what the dealer offered and low retail.

I couldn't agree more. The market for these things is really screwed up. I ended up buying an older, larger, and heavier 5th wheel than I wanted, because that's what I found used and in good condition. Mine is a 1-owner unit, smells new, and so even though I will have to carefully go over a lot of details, it's a good canvass.

The entire RV market is broken. Dealers are delusional on used units. I wouldn't be surprised if they're listing them for 3 times what they own them for. I have no problem with people making a fair profit, but if someone is going to do business like that, I am skeptical of absolutely everything they represent about the product. I went to look at a camper locally that had a book value of about $9000. The guy told me he was "blowing it out" at $19,300 and wouldn't negotiate. I see now the same unit is for sale in the $18k range. I would have happily written him a check for the whole $9k and left with the unit that day, but our discussion indicated that he was looking for a willing sucker to part with his cash (or worse, to finance it with private money, since no bank will loan $19k for an asset worth $9k).
twodownzero
Explorer
Jan 06, 2019
socaladam wrote:
The problem I have with the NADA guide is they only let you pick from the outdated list of items. For instance, have two or three AC units all 15k BTU? you can only pick one. Have a patio kit on the back? Not an option. Have two or three televisions, all the same size? You get to pick one. Have an electric awning longer than 21 feet? Too bad, 21 is the max. The list goes on and on...

Not only that, but the prices are a joke. I mean really? $490 for an electric awning? $500 doesn't even cover the cost of the awning material and $630 for a fuel station? Give me a break.

I don't trust anyone that can't spell DUAL PANE WINDOWS...

Duel Pane Windows
$705
$850

A lot of the options you're mentioning actually aren't "options" on most toy haulers. If I noticed something when I was shopping, it was that most toy haulers, especially new ones, come with A/C, awnings, and sometimes even fuel stations and generators standard. As such, those things do not affect the value of a used unit, since all of the used units have them.

I did end up paying a little more than NADA for my trailer, for which I'm not thrilled, but it was the right unit for me and I don't plan to sell anytime soon. The nice thing about an 18 year old unit is that it's pretty much done depreciating if it is kept in good condition; there are no toy haulers of really any shape or size that sell for less than $5000 if everything works.

The marginal cost of additional options isn't designed to compensate the seller for the market value of a new awning. A new awning is not worth the same as a used one to anyone. The marginal addition in cost of a unit with a particular option is designed to recognize what a buyer and seller might negotiate for additional $$$ on the sale because the option is there. Power door locks might only be a $60 option, but if a seller is willing to pay $200 more for the same car with power door locks, then that is what it adds to the value of the car. If the same buyer doesn't like a sunroof, that might subtract from what he is willing to pay. Most complex durable goods like trailers and cars are worth more as a sum of their parts than as a complete unit. If you want to deal with the hassle of taking them apart and parting them out, you can make a handy profit selling used parts by buying functional units and parting them out. I'm sure you've seen junkyards in your life; those businesses aren't in the business of losing money.
nayther
Explorer
Jan 03, 2019
socaladam wrote:
The problem I have with the NADA guide is they only let you pick from the outdated list of items. For instance, have two or three AC units all 15k BTU? you can only pick one. Have a patio kit on the back? Not an option. Have two or three televisions, all the same size? You get to pick one. Have an electric awning longer than 21 feet? Too bad, 21 is the max. The list goes on and on...

Not only that, but the prices are a joke. I mean really? $490 for an electric awning? $500 doesn't even cover the cost of the awning material and $630 for a fuel station? Give me a break.

I don't trust anyone that can't spell DUAL PANE WINDOWS...

Duel Pane Windows
$705
$850

You're confusing "value" with "cost" two entirely different animals.
socaladam
Explorer
Jan 02, 2019
The problem I have with the NADA guide is they only let you pick from the outdated list of items. For instance, have two or three AC units all 15k BTU? you can only pick one. Have a patio kit on the back? Not an option. Have two or three televisions, all the same size? You get to pick one. Have an electric awning longer than 21 feet? Too bad, 21 is the max. The list goes on and on...

Not only that, but the prices are a joke. I mean really? $490 for an electric awning? $500 doesn't even cover the cost of the awning material and $630 for a fuel station? Give me a break.

I don't trust anyone that can't spell DUAL PANE WINDOWS...

Duel Pane Windows
$705
$850
CincyGus
Explorer II
Jan 01, 2019
Congrats on the trailer! On the point of your post, many just have to understand that large "markups" are the norm on such a large purchase of this type. I mean look at the $7000-$10000 off ad's on TV for trucks during truck month or whatever the marketing gimmick is every quarter.

These forums are full of people that negotiated 25%-30% off New trailers. Even have a few that if they are honest will tell you they traded in their trailer for about 60% of what they later saw it listed for on that dealer website.

So know that listed or MSRP is a number that no one expects anyone to pay for NEW or USED trailers. Many private owners are having a hard time coming to grips that they are upside down in a 15 year loan of their trailer and it's worth about half what they owe on it. Some decide that they want a new trailer bad enough to trade it in, take the loss and move on. The smart ones list it, listen to offers for a while and sell it for somewhere between what the dealer offered and low retail.
twodownzero
Explorer
Jan 01, 2019

All mine! Thanks all.
twodownzero
Explorer
Dec 28, 2018
Going to look at some units tomorrow. I'll probably return with a trailer. I think I can stay within budget but I suspect I'll be paying more than I want to pay for one.
JAC1982
Explorer
Dec 27, 2018
As with real estate, the only way to determine true value is to see what someone is actually willing to pay for it. Just because a bank will lend X amount, doesn't mean it's worth that.

I say, if you find a trailer you like, and come up with a price you're willing to pay, then that's what it is worth to you. It doesn't matter what a bank will lend or what some guide is saying it's worth if you don't think it's worth that.

With our last trailer, NADA said it was worth $27,000. We were lucky to get $20,000 when we traded it in. Zero bites when trying to sell it ourselves. So, to me, it was worth $20,000 (which sucks considering we paid $34,000 for it 2 years prior). Dealer sold it for around $25,000, not much less than we offered it for when trying to do a private sale. They have the advantage though, because they make it easy to purchase.... if you buy private you have to get financing (assuming you aren't paying cash of course) lined up, etc etc all by yourself. At a dealer, they make it easy, and also I think many people think buying from a dealer vs a private seller is "safer".

I think you'd be better off just trying to find a private seller for a trailer in that price range, than going through a dealer. Or, just offer what you think it's worth at the dealer... they can take it or leave it.