Illuminated powered rocker switch for black water.

[cdlaine]

Went to dump a weeks worth of poo-poo.. the black water switch was non-functional (grey water switch worked as designed). Get to keep the poo-poo for a while until I figure this out. Artic Fox 29 5T. Out of warranty. This a.m. I attempted to trouble shoot. Switched the wiring connectors on the back of the black and grey rocker switch, the black would then illuminate, the grey would not, so I'm guessing it is not the switch. Attempted to follow the wiring to it's source, (maybe just a ground connection problem ?). Wiring quickly disappears into the sealed underbelly, i.e. no access unless I gut the beast.

So , I ask the gurus... what would be your next step ? Man, I sure wish I just had the old bayonet off my T.T. . Also, is the manual over-ride hidden in the sealed underbelly or am I just missing it?

All opinions appreciated.

Charles

[cdlaine]

Doug...

"Is yours mounted within specs as shown on the unit? Mine is not, & there is not room to mount it anywhere near vertical.".....

good question.. I do not know the answer. I have been told that Northwood bailed on this application,
so must be the source of warranty irritability for the corporation. Unfortunately,my valve
is past the born-on-dating of the manufacturer accepting responsibility.

I will keep the original, clean and lube... I hope a serviceable
back - up. I have noticed that the manual open / close with the
Allen requires gusto, so I can see where rounding the head could/will
occur very easily. Still undecided if I will create a
trap door access to the valve after this camping season is over.

Merry Christmas and happy dumping ! :B

Charles

[Veebyes]

Hey Charles, glad things are flowing again. You got off lighter than I was expecting labourwise.

There is more than likely nothing wrong with the old valve that a good cleaning & lubing won't fix. The contact that senses open or closed is all it likely is. Used my manual overide so much that I wore the allen screw head round. Do that & you have yourself a working spare.

Is yours mounted within specs as shown on the unit? Mine is not, & there is not room to mount it anywhere near vertical.

Merry Christmas & a free flowing New Year.

[cdlaine]

and, ...just for the sake of completion...

I took the lazy man way out. Had the service guy drop the
sealed underbelly. As predicted here, not the illuminated
powered rocker switch, not fuses, was the stuck DrainMaster
black water valve. (see below). I opted to replace with same
(it can't happen again, right ??? ha!!). Hopefully I'm not
back here next month lamenting my wallet biopsy decision.
Out of pocket expenses... parts $134.97. labor...$95.03...
having a functioning poo-poo dump...priceless.

I must award the "lump of coal in the stocking' to the engineers
at Northwood that saw fit to place the black water drain valve
in a location the makes "manual overide" a challenge. Obviously,
not designed with end-user in mind. They chose poorly. Next go
round I will have to eat the additional costs of converting to
a manual blade system...which the service manager informed me
is not without it's own set of perils. The push-button dump sure seemed
liked a good idea at point-of-purchase... now, not so much.

Charles

failed part...

[fuzzdr]

There are 2 kinds of 'manual dump valves'. The kind installed by Cruiser at the factory is the worst kind. Those valves are attached to a very long cable (about 8 ft. if I remember correctly). All of that cable length introduces way too much friction which all but guarantees failure eventually. And the actual valve itself can become stuck even if the cable is moving properly. I had to replace my black valve shortly after taking delivery. The replacement was brand new and identical to the original. The new valve was stuck tight about 20% open in only a couple of weeks. Working on these valves is a nasty job-cut away enough underbelly fabric for access and then have poop gushing into one's face as the valve is replaced.Then attempt to replace the underbelly again. This time, my replacement valve is a 12vdc electric valve. It has been working flawlessly for the last one year plus. I also added a manual black valve which is placed directly inboard of the drain cap. This second valve will really be appreciated if your main valve fails and will save your shoes from being dumped on with poop at the dump station.

The other type of manual black dump valve provided by some manufacturers is not found under the underbelly fabric fortunately. It is similar to my second valve (see above) in that it is found just inboard of the dump cap. I had one of these valves on my Sprinter TT.

If my present electric valve ever fails, I will make sure that it is stuck in the open position and from that point on just use my second valve just inside the dump cap.........just like Sprinter owners do from the get-go.

My electric black valve is a Valterra Electric EZ Valve

[Veebyes]

Push button this & push button that. It all works great till the day it does not work.

[cdlaine]

Doug...

"In an inaccessible place. Just where you would expect to find them."

Truth.

My bride is not in to poo-poo patrol detail.Even when I apply Jedi mind tricks she still resists the Force. Getting this resolved is my gig. Still awaiting diagnosis...but, heavily leaning to conversion back to manual deployment. Lesson learned. To all considering push button "ease" ... this is not the configuration you desire.

Charles

[Veebyes]

The dealer will have cut into the belly to gain access & then sealed it again either with tape or something.

We average 150 nights a year onboard ours. We use our own facilitys almost exclusivly so we dump every 3,4 or 5 days. Even operating the valve that often it still occasionally sticks.

I believe the inline fuses may be below near the blade valve itself. In an inaccessible place. Just where you would expect to find them.

As long as you are agile enough, have the 'I can fix it myself' attitude & a DW who is not affraid to get her hands dirty pitching in to help, the sometimes sticky valve can be lived with.

Keeping a spare valve onboard might give security to you & may guarantee that you will never need it.

[cdlaine]

Thanks Doug... ah the joys of the modern era 5ver. We'll get past this. Hate to become a black water dump expert... but, looks like that is my destiny. I may be getting back to you on where to dissect the underbelly.

I looked all over for an in-line fuse... no luck... suspect it too is hidden. The fuse on the panel is ok.

Charles

[Veebyes]

There might be 2 fuses. 1 inline near the switch. The other in the 12V fuse panel.

Yup, the blade valve. I went through everything else the first time. Finally got the knife out & cut a panel out in the bottom to get access.

The thing gets stuck so often that at the dump the DW & I have it down taking less time with the faulty blade valve than many do with a routine dumping.

The allen wrench is kept handy in a truck tray. A drop cloth to lay on is handy as is the tape to hold the bottom panel afterwards.

It will fail on you again. Guaranteed. Be ready for it.

[cdlaine]

Doug,

Unfortunately, already at the dealer...(out of warranty! of course) , waiting for the estimate. The guy that checked me in says ... "it almost always ends up being a stuck blade". Not sure which/where "fuse" you speak of... I felt obligated to take it in as I didn't want my Turkey dinner and left overs to sit too long and ferment. (mercy !). I'm a simpleton when it comes to engineering , but why wouldn't the design team have left an accessible panel to as critical an element as this i.e. the manual override ??? or, why not re-locate the key components to under the forward crawl space area allowing us simpletons direct access ? C'mon man.

On the bright side... my external "satellite ready" cable connector has never worked... possibly mis-connected or bad splitter, the one in the storage area has always worked. Now that I have satellite Dish, I thought it best to have them ping it and see what the problem is. So I'll add this to the "to do" list.

I took the opportunity to walk thru the 2015's ...mostly cosmetic changes, not necessarily upgrades. Newer front caps, mor-ryde instead of Reese Airborne tongue, did notice more lugs...heavier axles, and newer decal package. The largest rig had a dual door refrigerator / freezer and a nice large pantry. Fit and finish seems about the same good quality. Just my 15 min. walk thru opinion. I did not check out the TT's only the 5ver's.

Charles

[Veebyes]

Sounds like you have the same system as me. A PIA.

Easy first check is the fuse. Not likely blown unless you have held the switch too long.

Most likely fault is a stuck knife valve at the tank. You will have to cut yourself an access panel out of the trailer bottom. Biggest challenge there will be to locate where the valve is & cut a panel big enough to open & get working room.

On one side of the knife switch is an allen screw to manually open the valve. Most likely it is stuck & needs just a slight turn to make contact & the motor will work again.

All of this seems daunting the first time around but once you see what to do & how to do it, no real big deal.

The underbelly will have to be taped up & the valve will likely stick again especially if use is not very frequent. Don't use duct tape. It is a PIA & leaves a sticky residue on the underbelly material. Best thing found so far is the silver metal tape. Not the thick type that has a backing to peel off.

Take it to the dealer as a very last resort. Given what that valve handles you will think that they have put a roto rooter in a part of your body by the time they are finished with you.

[cdlaine]

Gonski....

Sounds like a good plan... I'll wait for the estimate, then see what the Princess wants me to do. Really crappy to have to do this (get it!!) , but not many options. I don't want to pay for repairs only to have to lather , rinse , repeat next season.

Charles

[cdlaine]

Frank and Fuzz....

Thank you for the input... rapidly exceeds my skill set. Man, I long for the "old days" of a bayonet . This seems over-engineered and unnecessarily complicated. I used the test light , indicates the rocker switch is not the problem. I opted to let the local Artic Fox dealership (where I bought the rig) work out the next step. Really not interested in getting into the underbelly but may have to do what ever is necessary. The motor sounds anemic. Hoping for the best , but expecting a wallet biopsy in my near future.... Merry Christmas to me. I'll share the outcome.

Charles

[GON2SKI]

I just replaced all my drain master electronic valves with manual valves to achieve reliable dumping. AF did not help out since past warrantee but a good local selling dealer provided the parts and I did the labor/change. AF is back selling units with the manual dumping feature.