intermittent brakes

[azbohunter]

I am having the intermittent brake problem. I have done some diagnostics as recommended in other posts. I pulled the emergency connection and all four wheel rolled, I checked for power at wires coming out of that connector and had power, crawled under trailer on drivers side and checked for power at front axle, good. Checked rear axle and it was no go, wiggled some wires, pulled on wire going through axle etc, checked power and at rear axle drivers side again and it was there. Went back to truck, plugged emergency connector back in, checked dash brake with manual slide controller and it went up to 10, pulled the emergencey plug and all four wheel slide? So I have determined that the problem is wiring and not magnets or in the hub..but don't know where to go from here?

[Sjm9911]

Might as well replace the old breakaway switch while you at it. In for a penny in for a pound.

[azbohunter]

Hey Barney, thanks for sharing that, I'm sure it will be helpful.
This is where I am currently. After the smoldering wires which thankfully occured right at the breakway I have found that the breakaway is not fused, understandably! The brake ground is on the frame near the real drivers side axel. The power wire and breakaway are fastened together at front and rear axle drivers side. In Order for there to have been a dead short of this magnatude, it has to be one of the blue power wires, correct? I would think so. So, I am going to just run two new power wires and hopefully that should be good.
All my tools are of the best nature, crimp style connectors, connectors for the appropriate size wire with factory shrink, the appropriate stripping tool and the appropriate crimping tool with slots for 3 different size crimps that are color coded to the crimps, red, blue and yellow. If there is an error it shouldn't be in my tools or application.
I'm thinking the wire has to be the problem and it is in a spot I can see. I may cut it and pull it out when I do the new wire...tomorrow, I'm done for today 😞

[BarneyS]

Check out this post by forum member JBarca that has complete directions on wiring your brakes, complete with pictures.

Also embedded early in his post is a link to another thread by former Travel Trailer moderator LAdams on the same subject and also contains a lot of excellent pictures to help explain what is going on.

I think both of these old threads will be a big help to you in re-wiring your brakes - which by the way I think is the best route to go.:)
Barney

[azbohunter]

Right at the breakaway.
I opened up the bottom enough to get at the wiring and I seen nothing alarming but after checking things out and moving stuff around I hooked up wires for breakaway and no smoke and brakes locked.
I think at this point it's new wires from front back.

[Mike134]

azbohunter wrote:
Mike, I appreciate your help and comments as I have waded through this. I have had the intermittant brake problem for a while. When I first dug into it I found the bare wires that were in photo in a ealier post. I cut the bare spots out and used proper connectors with heat shrink. The bare wires were and issue and I am glad I found it and fixed it. Today, I pulled wires out the axle, ran new wires and reconnected them, blue to one side of magnet and white to one side, I was told that it didn't matter which..there is not positive or negative. Correct the magnets don't care one wire to the pos. side one wire to the neg. side.
My thought are that there is more bare wire inside the belly that I can see and from my tugging and moving them around they have grounded to the the frame.possible since they skinned those wires you repaired, they likely skinned others during the install I could run new wire all the way from the plug and bypass the belly to or may even apply 12 volt at the wiring going into the first axle..
I am not a automotive wiring guy, but I have completed rewired a house and a boat with a lot of electronics so I am not totally inexperienced.
I am assuming that the breakway simply sends 12volts to the magnets?correct

You said the wires burnt when you pulled the breakaway where did they melt?

[azbohunter]

Mike, I appreciate your help and comments as I have waded through this. I have had the intermittant brake problem for a while. When I first dug into it I found the bare wires that were in photo in a ealier post. I cut the bare spots out and used proper connectors with heat shrink. The bare wires were and issue and I am glad I found it and fixed it. Today, I pulled wires out the axle, ran new wires and reconnected them, blue to one side of magnet and white to one side, I was told that it didn't matter which..there is not positive or negative.
My thought are that there is more bare wire inside the belly that I can see and from my tugging and moving them around they have grounded to the the frame. I could run new wire all the way from the plug and bypass the belly to or may even apply 12 volt at the wiring going into the first axle..
I am not a automotive wiring guy, but I have completed rewired a house and a boat with a lot of electronics so I am not totally inexperienced.
I am assuming that the breakway simply sends 12volts to the magnets?

[Mike134]

azbohunter wrote:
Things are going the wrong way. After wiring the brakes I pulled the breakaway and burned the wires off...so I'm thinking that one of those wire must be shorted to the frame in the belly... any one else feel that way?

If I was called to troubleshoot:

Question #1 how did it work before you "fixed" it?
Question #2 show me what you did. That's typically the location it's failed.

I'm thinking you need a helper with a bit more wiring knowledge.

[JRscooby]

azbohunter wrote:
Things are going the wrong way. After wiring the brakes I pulled the breakaway and burned the wires off...so I'm thinking that one of those wire must be shorted to the frame in the belly... any one else feel that way?

Follow the burnt wires. At the end of the burn is where the short was.

[azbohunter]

Things are going the wrong way. After wiring the brakes I pulled the breakaway and burned the wires off...so I'm thinking that one of those wire must be shorted to the frame in the belly... any one else feel that way?

[azbohunter]

JRscooby wrote:
IMHO, the best way to make a connection is with the right sized crimp connector, a good crimp tool. Fill the connector with blue Form-a-Gasket before you put the wires in, wipe off the excess.

I have the proper heat shrink waterproof marine connectors, the proper stripping tool and the proper crimping tool, BUT this is a pain in the a-__ very difficult to get the crimping tool up to the back side of the hub and the wires going to the magnets are really short, probably easy in the factory when there were no tires, shocks etc in the way. I have all the connectors crimped but I still need to apply the heat gun to them.

[JRscooby]

IMHO, the best way to make a connection is with the right sized crimp connector, a good crimp tool. Fill the connector with blue Form-a-Gasket before you put the wires in, wipe off the excess.

[Krusty]

Absolutely it could be in one of the drums. I had that issue once on mine. A wire had rubbed thru right next to the magnet and would short to ground only when the brakes were applied and the magnet moved. It would of course affect all the brakes as it interrupted power to all of them and never blew a fuse.

[azbohunter]

Mike134 wrote:
no chance it's in one of the wheels. Only thing that could happen inside a wheel is the magnet goes bad either open (only that wheel wouldn't have brakes), or it shorts out blowing the fuse in your truck that furnishes 12V to the brake controller.

Just a tip put some Vaseline into your new crimp wirenuts to weatherproof them before inserting the wires.

Thanks Mike, I do have heat shrink connectors and I have dielectic grease. I will do as you suggest.
A couple years ago I had a similar brake issue with intermitant failure and it was a magnet had broken loose and the wire would short out but it never did blow a fuse but I would lose all brakes when it happened. I discovered it by pulling on all the wires looking for something lose and the wires on that wheel pulled right out of the backside when I pulled it. I wish this was that obvious.

[Mike134]

no chance it's in one of the wheels. Only thing that could happen inside a wheel is the magnet goes bad either open (only that wheel wouldn't have brakes), or it shorts out blowing the fuse in your truck that furnishes 12V to the brake controller.

Just a tip put some Vaseline into your new crimp wirenuts to weatherproof them before inserting the wires.

[azbohunter]

So just to eliminate items as I go thru this. I pulled the wires that run thru the tubes and found no issues. I cut off all connectors and am headed to get parts to replace this stuff. I wonder if there is a chance that it could be inside one of the wheels? I'm thinking not as when the brakes worked all four tires slid on the gravel. I have Dexter never lube axles and although I have had one off and back on I would rather not go there. My fear now is that it could be something inside the belly of the fiver and that is a real chore, and I have been there in the past too. I have owned this rig for 12 years and put lots of miles on and doing all the maintanence myself, I pretty much have seen it all.