Inverter issue, we need some power for dry camping

[mrwacky]

I'm grappling with a problem in need of a solution. For some reason the person who originally ordered our 5er chose not to include an inverter. We do have a propane powered genset and one battery for 12V operation.

Why is this an issue? We travel for months at a time, on this current trip we won't be home until October. But even for shorter trips we don't spend every night plugged into an RV park. We like to pull over when we want and spend many nights at Wal-Mart or other such parking lots. And we like to watch TV and play games, and be able to enjoy the creature comforts without resorting to turning on the genset. Running that genset consumes a lot of propane and I mean a lot. We went through 14 gallons in a matter of a few hours and not only is it a pain in the you know what to chase propane for a refill but it's not free either. I realize I'm rambling here but I wanted to put our story out there when asking for solutions. I'm thinking of buying one of the Harbor Freight 700 watt inverters, it comes with battery cables for clamping on the battery. Running an extension cord from the inverter which would be located in the front genset area to a window, and plugging in the TV/XBOX/DVD player and using the cigarette plug to charge the cell phones and such. Others I have talked to suggest a 1000-1500 inverter. And still others a 2000 to 3000 watt inverter. However, we would need a professional install,a bank of expensive batteries, and we would eat up storage area for the battery bank. The added inverter power would possibly run the coffee pot and microwave but again, at what cost? A pot of coffee brewing would suck up much of the battery charge as would warming something in the microwave. Plus we can warm or make coffee on the stove.

So I hope you see where I'm at and I have a feeling others out there are in the same boat. What have you done or what do you suggest we do?

[pianotuna]

Hi mrwacky,

I'm glad it has worked out for you!

Here is what I do to power my entire rv.

- installed a 30 amp female plug in the shore power cord box powered by the inverter.
- turn the converter off (in my case I can unplug it)
- set the fridge to propane
- turn on the inverter

Be sure to use a slow blow fuse between the battery bank and the inverter. Fuse size to protect the DC (thick) wire. Keep the run to the inverter as short as is possible. I would wire as though I were going to have a 2000 watt inverter--that way if you do decide to upgrade it will be easy to swap it out.

On a 750 watt inverter you can run things such as a George Forman grill, a drip coffee maker, and many other low wattage devices.

[laknox]

mrwacky wrote:
I'm grappling with a problem in need of a solution. For some reason the person who originally ordered our 5er chose not to include an inverter. We do have a propane powered genset and one battery for 12V operation.

Why is this an issue? We travel for months at a time, on this current trip we won't be home until October. But even for shorter trips we don't spend every night plugged into an RV park. We like to pull over when we want and spend many nights at Wal-Mart or other such parking lots. And we like to watch TV and play games, and be able to enjoy the creature comforts without resorting to turning on the genset. Running that genset consumes a lot of propane and I mean a lot. We went through 14 gallons in a matter of a few hours and not only is it a pain in the you know what to chase propane for a refill but it's not free either. I realize I'm rambling here but I wanted to put our story out there when asking for solutions. I'm thinking of buying one of the Harbor Freight 700 watt inverters, it comes with battery cables for clamping on the battery. Running an extension cord from the inverter which would be located in the front genset area to a window, and plugging in the TV/XBOX/DVD player and using the cigarette plug to charge the cell phones and such. Others I have talked to suggest a 1000-1500 inverter. And still others a 2000 to 3000 watt inverter. However, we would need a professional install,a bank of expensive batteries, and we would eat up storage area for the battery bank. The added inverter power would possibly run the coffee pot and microwave but again, at what cost? A pot of coffee brewing would suck up much of the battery charge as would warming something in the microwave. Plus we can warm or make coffee on the stove.

So I hope you see where I'm at and I have a feeling others out there are in the same boat. What have you done or what do you suggest we do?

Several options for you. 6v golf cart batteries are < $100 at most Sam's or Costcos. I put 2 in my Komfort last year and am glad I did. 4 really don't take up all that much more room. A good 1 or 2 panel solar system can help keep you off the generator by running as much as possible off the 12v system and light 110v usage. Adding a smaller inverter, with a switch panel to control 110v use, can also be done or, for ease of use, a larger inverter, but at the cost of efficiency. Personally, I'd replace the propane genset with a gas-powered one and also change it out to an inverter-type. The advantage to this is that the engine runs only as fast as needed for the load you put on it, which makes it =much= more efficient. A straight generator runs at idle or wide open, no in-between. Yamaha does make a generator that uses a lower rpm, high torque engine to help with this (2600 rpm, IIRC), but it's still either idle or wide open.

Lyle

[mrwacky]

Thank's a million guys for all the feed back and suggestions. This is what I did after listening to you. I went to Interstate battery and bought two 6 volt batteries, a heavy duty battery box, and the salesman made me a 2 awg jumper cable to jump from the neg. terminal on one battery to the positive terminal on the other. Total cost at that point about $350. Harbor Freight was running an ad for inverters. Originally I was going with a 2000 watt model from another company with PSW. After reading the posts here and the reviews elsewhere, I decided to go with a 750 watt MSW from Harbor Freight. The sale price plus the additional 20% off coupon set me back about $40 for the inverter. I set up the battery box and batteries in the pass through storage near the laundry shoot that has an access door on the steps to the bedroom. This set up is about as uncomplicated as it comes. After hooking the inverter to the batteries via the alligator clamps supplied, I plugged in a shop light and turned on the inverter. It worked. I then took an extension cord and ran the cord from the inverter through the laundry shoot, along the edge of the kitchen cabinets to the entertainment center. I plugged a six way circuit protector I use for the lap top into the extension cord. I then plugged the XBOX 360 and the 32" Vizio LCD Tv into the system. Both turned on and worked as if they had been plugged into a normal 115V source. I ran the game box and TV for 90 minutes and all was well. I then disconnected everything from the batteries and inside the 5'er and hooked up the battery charger to the batteries for the initial charge. I did not check the charge on the battery prior to using it and have no idea whether it came fully charged or not. My set up at this point is right at $400. If this works as I think it will, it won't be long before it pays for itself in saved propane use. At some point I thought I might try to figure out how to wire this inverter into the 5'er itself which would then send power to the entertainment center plug in's. Granted, this is a very crude set up but it worked. I figure later on if I need more power I will add two more golf cart batteries to the bank.

[John_Bridge]

I've posted this elsewhere. You don't need an inverter to watch TV. You need a 12-14 volt TV. I have a 19 in. Samsung I got at Walmart. It's made to plug into 120 volt and had a transformer "brick" attached to a cord (like a lap top computer). Cut the brick off and wire direct to the battery(s). Low voltage TVs are not that easy to find. When in a store, look behind them at the power cord. If there is a brick it's a low voltage DC TV.

The power cord from the brick to the TV is like a small co-ax cable. The outside conductor is the negative; the inside conductor is the positive. Before the Samsung I had a Vizio. It worked, but I didn't like the way it operated. Try to find a TV that draws less than 40 watts. They are out there. They cost less than the price of an inverter (less than $200).

Inverters rob you of precious DC current. 🙂

P.S. For those less in the know about how RV wiring works, your low voltage TV will operate with or without shore power. You don't have to do anything by turn it on. Your converter will not allow 120 volts to reach the battery.

[time2roll]

700 is too much. Think 150 or 300 watts and get sine wave.

I power my tv, dvd, laptop and charge small items with a Go Power 300w sine wave inverter.

I mounted the inverter behind the fuse-breaker panel. 12v connects to the main battery feed to the panel. 120v is wired into the entertainment area circuit with an automatic transfer switch. The wiring is very straight forward if you have done any home wiring before. The Go Power 300w has a provision for a remote power switch so with the touch of a button I have instant power.

GP 300w SW $172

Xantrex 15 amp switch $49

So all in maybe $250-$300 for self install.

[pianotuna]

Hi,

I would encourage you to use a pure sine wave unit of about 300 watts for your television fix.

If there is room consider a second battery.

If you want a larger inverter I'd jump up to 2000 watts.

The "best buy" on a large pure sine wave unit is from bestconverter 2000 watt psw $355.00

[hmknightnc]

For the use you describe it is relatively low power demand. Twin 6volts, 250Watt solar, and a 300watt inverter should cover your needs

I have twin 6volts, 265watt solar and a 300watt PSW inverter. I can college football 3 night tailgate running multiple TVs, radio, and LED lights all I want. If it's cool enough to not need AirCond I don't have to run the generator at all. I run out of water and gray tank capacity well before power every becomes a problem doing this.

[RoyB]

This is a pretty good example of what you can do mounting the Inverter in the pass-thru storage area which is close to the battery terminals. The INVERTER I use has a remote control ON-OFF switch and all of the 120VAC drop Cord cables are hid from view except where the multi-port extension cord receptacles are located on the back of a table top or side of a cabinet...

This is a simplified drawing of a typical smaller trailer pretty much wired up like my OFF-ROAD POPUP units as far as the installed Inverter is concerned...


I started out with a MSW type INVERTER in my OFF-ROAD POPUP setup and blew up a couple of items then went to a 300W PSW type Inverter and everything worked just great. After using this for a season we decided we wanted to run more 120VAC items when camping off the power grid so finally ended up with a AIMS 600W PSW INVERTER $149...

Alot of folks will tell you to just run the MSW type Inverters and hope for the best. It works good for me they say... In my first try I burned up an electric blanket controller, one 20-inch box fan, one 2COOL 10-inch fan xfmr, had lines running thru my TV set, DVD would not run at the correct speed. my clocks were never the right time, anything with a motor would run hot and slower... All of this to just save about $30 buck..... hmmmm ok....

If you run PSW TYPE Inverters then you don't even have to think about it burning up anything... Your choice.... This is just me speaking now - alot of users out there running MSW TYPE Inverters with no problems. Just not my PLAN B cup of tea...

We don't even think about it anymore now... Our emergeny 120VAC table top mounted receptacles are for anyone to plug in any 120VAC item they want to... With my 600WATT Inverter my draw from the batteries is usually around 20AMPs for the four hours between 7PM and 11PM. This relates to about 250-300WATTS being consumed in that amount of time. No problem at all for my 255AH battery capacity as long as I recharge the next morning.

I suspect you will want to install at least something in the 225AH battery capacity range if you can run for one day/night run off the batteries and re-charge again the next morning using smart-mode charging technology using a 2KW Honda Quiet type generator direct connected to the trailer 30AMP Shore Power Cable.

We will run things down to the around the 50% charge state and then re-charge back up to the 90% charge state the next morning and do these 50%/90% battery charge cycles for around 2-weeks before we have to charge up to a full 100% charge state. Otherwise we will start doing damage to our batteries.

If you can up your battery capacity to 400AH's or so you can last several day/nights running off the batteries without charging unless you have to run the furnace. The idea is to NEVER let your batteries run below 50% charge state and not re-charge right away or you will start internal battery self destruction and will have to replace your batteries most likely..

If you just grab a few things and run out to the woods it usually gets dark on you around 10PM at night...

It takes some planning but you you can camp very successful just like we do with not too many changes to the trailer system.

Just my thoughts
Roy Ken

[BiggestRon]

mrwacky wrote:
I'm grappling with a problem in need of a solution. For some reason the person who originally ordered our 5er chose not to include an inverter. We do have a propane powered genset and one battery for 12V operation.

Why is this an issue? We travel for months at a time, on this current trip we won't be home until October. But even for shorter trips we don't spend every night plugged into an RV park. We like to pull over when we want and spend many nights at Wal-Mart or other such parking lots. And we like to watch TV and play games, and be able to enjoy the creature comforts without resorting to turning on the genset. Running that genset consumes a lot of propane and I mean a lot. We went through 14 gallons in a matter of a few hours and not only is it a pain in the you know what to chase propane for a refill but it's not free either. I realize I'm rambling here but I wanted to put our story out there when asking for solutions. I'm thinking of buying one of the Harbor Freight 700 watt inverters, it comes with battery cables for clamping on the battery. Running an extension cord from the inverter which would be located in the front genset area to a window, and plugging in the TV/XBOX/DVD player and using the cigarette plug to charge the cell phones and such. Others I have talked to suggest a 1000-1500 inverter. And still others a 2000 to 3000 watt inverter. However, we would need a professional install,a bank of expensive batteries, and we would eat up storage area for the battery bank. The added inverter power would possibly run the coffee pot and microwave but again, at what cost? A pot of coffee brewing would suck up much of the battery charge as would warming something in the microwave. Plus we can warm or make coffee on the stove.

So I hope you see where I'm at and I have a feeling others out there are in the same boat. What have you done or what do you suggest we do?

Solar, Solar and more SOLAR panels. Solar, Solar and more SOLAR panels. I would suggest about 400 watts worth with a very good PMMW controller. and 4 each 6 volt batteries. You will be good to go regardless which inverter you use. I have a 3 kw in my rig and can run anything in the trailer. My 12 volt battery is about ready to be replaced and I'm going with 4-6 volter.

With our setup we can stay about 4 days "off the grid" before running the 2kw Honda for a recharge. Granted we don't watch TV/games etc but charge the Kindles and other stuff and watch the lighting situation at night. But our 80 watt solar panel (will be 400 watts) has worked great for us.

[SailingOn]

Our 400w MSW inverter cost less than $75. The 23" TV and BluRay player average less than 120w. Everything else we use dry camping runs on 12v or propane. No microwave, no coffeepot unless the generator is running.
Our single group 27 battery gets us through 24 hours unless the furnace blower is going.
Mount the inverter as close to the battery as you can without putting it in the battery compartment, then run the 120v where you need it. Voltage drop is too much a problem in a long 12v feed. When I tried our little inverter plugged into the Winegard 12v socket it would not light even a 40w bulb.

[wilber1]

Check the placards on all the components you will be using at the same time, add up the number of watts they will draw and get an inverter with enough capacity to cover the total.

If you just want to run an entertainment center, I found a 750W unit bought at Costco adequate to run a 30" LCD flat screen, Sat receiver, Blue Ray and small sound system. I mounted the inverter close to the batteries and ran a cord to an outlet I installed in the entertainment center. I took the end plate off the inverter and soldered a couple of wires to the on/off switch terminals, then ran them to a switch in the entertainment center so I can turn the unit on and off from inside. Works great.

One 12V won't cut it though. We get away with twin 6V's but rarely run the inverter for more than two hours before re charging for a couple of hours. Again, you can use the total load you came up with and your projected usage to come up with your battery needs.

[Golden_HVAC]

Hi,

I have full timed for many years, and you really do not want a 1000 watt inverter, they are not that energy efficient, becuase of the larger capacitors required to make the higher output amperage, and are fairly expensive to install due to the larger wire, and need for 4 batteries, that extra weight ect.

A simple 150 - 300 watt inverter will be less than $75, and wire up with #10 wire to a cigarette lighter receptacle. You can fuse it at 20 amps, normally I never exceed that much power.

With a 150 watt inverter, you can watch TV, DVD, charge a laptop, all at once. 300 watts will just allow a few more things, and discharge your batteries faster.

My suggestion is to run the generator those minutes you need the microwave, or toaster, coffee maker, ect. It will also help recharge the battery.

You will need more battery power. I would suggest another group 27 battery, especially if the old one is still working acceptable. Once those batteries fail (expect about 2-3 years from a pair of 12 volt batteries) then replace with a pair of golf cart batteries, and they should last 6 - 12 years with good watering, not leaving them discharged very long, and not going below about 45% state of charge.

And of course solar power. SunElec.com

Good luck,

Have fun camping!

Fred.

[KampingKris]

Like it or not... one battery just isn't going to do it.
We have a 2000 watt inverter and 6 6volts...
You need to have at least 2 - 4 would be better 6volts in order to really take advantage of an inverter...