Keystone Design Issues

[moman1]

OK, I need to vent a few frustrations with Keystone. We just purchased a new Fuzion and noticed (after we purchased) some design flaws that we think are ridiculous. My thought is that if I vent on here, someone else will read it be able to explain to me the thought process Keystone had when designing their RVs and make me feel better about them. Here we go:
1. Why in the hell would you make a toy hauler that is more than likely going to be dry camping (toys right?) have a fridge on the outside that can only be used when connected to shore power? Mind numbing!!!
2. Why is the central DVD unit (should be a Blu-ray, but that's on another thread) not able to push the DVD movie to all the other TVs in the trailer?
3. Why are there four different connections for the sat tv/cable input? I shouldn't have to go outside and move the cable input to the bedroom connection to watch cable in our bedroom. I can go to an antique store to purchase a three way splitter and have it go to all TVs for about $5.

Sorry for the rant. But for over $100k MSRP in 2018, I'd expect much more. For less than $100 (and that's being very generous) all of these issues could have been addressed. I have written Keystone, just waiting on a response. Thanks for listening/reading.

Kevin

[DiskDoctr]

You may like the idea of adding an inverter to run your outdoor fridge from the batteries, which a solar system may be able to run without a generator (and phone chargers, laptops, other small 120v appliances)

Could be pretty simple and have other benefits beyond just a fridge you can use when not on shore power 😉

[ScottG]

You really wonder about their way of thinking.
I keep wondering why my bathroom night-light is (was) controlled by a switch next to the main entry door.
Why do some outside compartments get lights and others don't?
Etc, etc.

[tinner12002]

Just my .02 is that the fridge is too small to get all that's required for a 2-way frig into such a small package.

[dedmiston]

DutchmenSport wrote:

dedmiston wrote:

408f150 wrote:
1) They don't make LP fridges that small, 12v won't push a fridge, and i'm pretty sure most run with the generator or inverter (i know mine in my older forest river did)

Why not propane like the main fridge? It would only need 12V power for the igniter to light the LP at startup.

Having said that though, our trailer came with a silly wine fridge that only runs on shore power or generator. We took the wine rack out and fill it with beer.

Probably because engineering a propane refrigerator takes outside venting. With the outside kitchen all closed up, there's no vent. Now granted, engineering could figure out a safe way to make that happen. But that would also require some pretty slick changes, paying engineers to design it, and changing out existing simplified construction techniques. It's just simply too much work and expense for the manufacturer to make it happen.

That doesn't sound right to me. The fridge is already on an outside wall. The engineering isn't any different on the curb side than the fridge on the street side.

My guess is that they just didn't think of it. Most builders don't really have their fingers on the pulse of toy hauler users and their tendencies to dry camp.

[DutchmenSport]

dedmiston wrote:

408f150 wrote:
1) They don't make LP fridges that small, 12v won't push a fridge, and i'm pretty sure most run with the generator or inverter (i know mine in my older forest river did)

Why not propane like the main fridge? It would only need 12V power for the igniter to light the LP at startup.

Having said that though, our trailer came with a silly wine fridge that only runs on shore power or generator. We took the wine rack out and fill it with beer.

Probably because engineering a propane refrigerator takes outside venting. With the outside kitchen all closed up, there's no vent. Now granted, engineering could figure out a safe way to make that happen. But that would also require some pretty slick changes, paying engineers to design it, and changing out existing simplified construction techniques. It's just simply too much work and expense for the manufacturer to make it happen.

[dedmiston]

408f150 wrote:
1) They don't make LP fridges that small, 12v won't push a fridge, and i'm pretty sure most run with the generator or inverter (i know mine in my older forest river did)

Why not propane like the main fridge? It would only need 12V power for the igniter to light the LP at startup.

Having said that though, our trailer came with a silly wine fridge that only runs on shore power or generator. We took the wine rack out and fill it with beer.

[moman1]

DutchmenSport wrote:
1. From what I understand, ALL outside kitchens have AC powered refrigerators. Your's is not an exception. You should have caught this before you purchased it.

2. Don't know of any RV that connects the entertainment center to anything but the television located AT the entertainment center. The only lead going to other television locations is the coax cable for over-the-air television. Unless you have one custom made, every RV is factory made this way. Again, you should have asked about this before your purchase.

3. The outside inputs are for:

Satellite: All satellite systems require a dedicated line going to the satellite receiver. They do not work at all if they are connected to the campers television booster or electronics. That line (only a single line) will run to the entertainment center where you can attach the satellite receiver.

TV/Cable: One is usually designated as an "input" for connecting to a cable system, maybe provided by the campground. That cable signal will feed to the coax jacks inside the trailer wherever you have a coax jack to hook up to the television. It sounds like you also have 2 additional jacks on the outside of your camper for convenience. Here again, they are connected to the same wire as that will use the campground cable.

Also, that same Coax wire for the campground cable is also used for over-the-air. Turn the television booster off (that little green light with the black button), and all of your jacks will work with your over-the-air antenna on the roof of your RV. Everything except the satellite input jack. Remember, it's dedicated a dedicated line, not connected to the camper antenna system.

So, if you use your television antenna, turn on the tv booster and the little green light will come on. The antenna can be used on all the jack, both inside and outside the camper. So you can position a television almost anywhere, inside or outside.

Turn the booster off and plug in a Coax line to the campground cable and all the jacks will be cable ready. Scan with your individual television, or get the necessary box from the campground and you'll be able to use the box on only 1 television.

Hope this helps explain the jacks.

By the way, I've never heard anything but 120 volt AC refrigerators in the outside kitchens.

Thanks for the response.
I get the fridge issue is not just a keystone issue and I probably should have known this previously. However, there has to be a way to make a small fridge work on propane somehow. I’d even pay extra for it.

As for the video routing, my last RV had it so I know it’s possible. I could watch the blu ray player on any tv in the coach except the outside one. I could switch any of the three TVs to sat, cable, over the air or blu ray independently from the single source in the main living area.

[408f150]

It's not a bad of engineering as you think

1) They don't make LP fridges that small, 12v won't push a fridge, and i'm pretty sure most run with the generator or inverter (i know mine in my older forest river did)
2) Coming from a long background in the AV industry, the HDMI Matrixing switch that would be needed to reliably distribute are really expensive and prone to fail. Even a basic HDMI switch is really prone to fail unless you're spending hundreds of dollars on one. And you either have to run long HDMIs (expensive and impossible to repair/replace in an RV) or use CAT5e to HDMI baluns to carry the HD signal (expensive and temperamental)
3) multiple inputs allows you to mix broadband modem,sat,etc from room to room, if they were all on a single switch you could only distribute one signal.

[DutchmenSport]

1. From what I understand, ALL outside kitchens have AC powered refrigerators. Your's is not an exception. You should have caught this before you purchased it.

2. Don't know of any RV that connects the entertainment center to anything but the television located AT the entertainment center. The only lead going to other television locations is the coax cable for over-the-air television. Unless you have one custom made, every RV is factory made this way. Again, you should have asked about this before your purchase.

3. The outside inputs are for:

Satellite: All satellite systems require a dedicated line going to the satellite receiver. They do not work at all if they are connected to the campers television booster or electronics. That line (only a single line) will run to the entertainment center where you can attach the satellite receiver.

TV/Cable: One is usually designated as an "input" for connecting to a cable system, maybe provided by the campground. That cable signal will feed to the coax jacks inside the trailer wherever you have a coax jack to hook up to the television. It sounds like you also have 2 additional jacks on the outside of your camper for convenience. Here again, they are connected to the same wire as that will use the campground cable.

Also, that same Coax wire for the campground cable is also used for over-the-air. Turn the television booster off (that little green light with the black button), and all of your jacks will work with your over-the-air antenna on the roof of your RV. Everything except the satellite input jack. Remember, it's dedicated a dedicated line, not connected to the camper antenna system.

So, if you use your television antenna, turn on the tv booster and the little green light will come on. The antenna can be used on all the jack, both inside and outside the camper. So you can position a television almost anywhere, inside or outside.

Turn the booster off and plug in a Coax line to the campground cable and all the jacks will be cable ready. Scan with your individual television, or get the necessary box from the campground and you'll be able to use the box on only 1 television.

Hope this helps explain the jacks.

By the way, I've never heard anything but 120 volt AC refrigerators in the outside kitchens.