Lippert frame reinforcements Jayco & Crossroads OEM

[Snowman9000]

We toured the plant where Jayco builds their big Pinnacles and toyhaulers. I snapped some phone photos of the reinforcing on a Lippert frame for a big unit. I think it was for a TH. Maybe it will give people ideas on their own DIY strengthening.





By contrast, this what I saw when we toured the Crossroads factory this spring. The frame may have been for a slightly smaller fiver, but not much smaller if any.


Following shots are of a rear hitch receiver mounting at Crossroads. The hitch is rated for 3000/300.




Apparently I didn't photo a hitch mounting at Jayco.'
:S

[Me_Again]

So Lippert's service bulletin says to install 2 inch square tubing and gusset it to the spring hangers, yet they just throw a small piece of angle iron at it. Go figure.





Chris

[kakampers]

Mile High wrote:

jimmyfred wrote:
..........The thing is , IF they would use stronger , thicker metal in their spring hangers they wouldn't have to reinforce them ! My T.Supreme weighs 13,220 empty and has NO reinforcements on the hangers , at all ! , jf

X4
That spring hanger looks like paper! I can't count how many broken spring hangers I've seen on these, yet they still make them like that.

Flimsy spring hangers is exactly why we had Mor Ryde IS installed on our brand new Landmark...never have to worry about hangers sheering off or springs breaking...priceless!!

[Mile_High]

jimmyfred wrote:
..........The thing is , IF they would use stronger , thicker metal in their spring hangers they wouldn't have to reinforce them ! My T.Supreme weighs 13,220 empty and has NO reinforcements on the hangers , at all ! , jf

X4
That spring hanger looks like paper! I can't count how many broken spring hangers I've seen on these, yet they still make them like that.

[kennethwooster]

It's true even a good looking weld my not penetrate too well. However a good welder will produce both. I've had 2 trailers with Lippert. The first had such ugly welds they could not have penetrated well. The second had a bottom and you could not see as many welds, but they really made a huge mistake on where they attached axles to frame. They sent a man to correct the axle problems, but he only moved one axle. Couple of years later everything was wore out, and I had to have the axle they did not move put in the correct location. Thanks for MOr Ride as they sent all specs to dealer, who got everything rebuilt. Thank goodness I now have a Cameo. No Lippert frame.

[214mrj44]

I belive Lippert finly hired a welder. I bought a new 2013 3750 montana that all the welds look picture book perfect. I used to be a certified pipe welder so know what a good weld looks like. I checked all the welds I could get to without removing anything and they all looked very good. Mike

[marspec]

I'm no welder but could a bead look good but have no penetration? Or the opposite - poor looking bead but good penetration? Isn't penetration what counts?

[CKNSLS]

jimmyfred wrote:

Snowman9000 wrote:
Yeah, the welds are ugly. Let's not beat that horse any more, it's a diversion.

.........You still don't understand the point of EXposing the manufacturing of products with raw materials that have a "Repeated" , documented history of failure , Everytime an owner documents the 'SAME' problem , albeit One more time !
.........The mfger keeps making trailers with the same old 'Weak Frame' materials and they......KEEP......failing , over and over ! The More exposure the mfger receives , the sooner the New trailer buyer will see the subject , here , on RV.NET and purchase a different product ! After all , isn't that the whole idea of providing accurate information so "Cavet Emptor" is operative in a free market ?? , jf

BUT BOTH posters who were Welders said they would hold. So what's the big deal?

[jimmyfred]

Snowman9000 wrote:
Yeah, the welds are ugly. Let's not beat that horse any more, it's a diversion.

.........You still don't understand the point of EXposing the manufacturing of products with raw materials that have a "Repeated" , documented history of failure , Everytime an owner documents the 'SAME' problem , albeit One more time !
.........The mfger keeps making trailers with the same old 'Weak Frame' materials and they......KEEP......failing , over and over ! The More exposure the mfger receives , the sooner the New trailer buyer will see the subject , here , on RV.NET and purchase a different product ! After all , isn't that the whole idea of providing accurate information so "Cavet Emptor" is operative in a free market ?? , jf

[jbc28]

spadoctor wrote:
We toured several plants last year. Many use Lippert standard designed frames and design their rigs around the frame. Companies like Jayco, KZ and Open Range on the other hand design the entire rig including the frame. Lippert builds to their design. We were told at both Jayco and KZ that the frames being built by Lippert are the same designs that were built by Leyland...no difference. And yes they do inspect the frames BEFORE using them. We saw a Lippert mobile service truck at KZ and Open Range rewelding joints and even adding or moving braces either not installed or slightly off. A lot depends on the RV manufacturer for the total quality. Anyone can and will make mistakes.

I am glad that some OEM's design a more robust frame, but a well designed frame with crappy welds and inferior QA/QC is no better than a poorly designed frame.

The RV OEM should hold Lippert more accountable, and the consumer should hold the OEM accountable by refusing to buy crappy products.

Those welds in the OP look horrible and would get the welder either fired or sent back to school in any respectable industry.

I am glad my KZ rolls on a Leland frame, but with Lippert's low priced frames under just about every trailer these days I will be very hesistant to "upgrade" our rig.

[Snowman9000]

Yeah, the welds are ugly. Let's not beat that horse any more, it's a diversion.

[ScottG]

gmcsmoke wrote:
I wonder how many crappy welds we'd find if we took apart our TV's?

Virtually none. From what I've seen they are text-book perfect.

[goducks10]

As a person who has been a certified welder welding in various situations for the last 40 yrs. I know for a fact that if I had made welds like that on the jobs I welded on I would be asked to not weld anymore. Most of my welding experience was in the commercial construction end. Lots of welding from 20ga to 1/4" thicknesses. Most all the time the welds were inspected with an onsite welding inspector. Those welds on the frames in the pics are very sloppy. Sure they hold. But I just can't believe that frame makers can't find people that can run a nice bead. I mean after welding a few frames anyone welding should have the hang of it. It looks like welds you see when you have students in a welding class learning how to weld. But then I guess if someone took the time to lay a nice weld down then they couldn't produce as many frames. You kinda have to wonder what the welds look like on the newer aluminum frames for the walls are like.

[spadoctor]

We toured several plants last year. Many use Lippert standard designed frames and design their rigs around the frame. Companies like Jayco, KZ and Open Range on the other hand design the entire rig including the frame. Lippert builds to their design. We were told at both Jayco and KZ that the frames being built by Lippert are the same designs that were built by Leyland...no difference. And yes they do inspect the frames BEFORE using them. We saw a Lippert mobile service truck at KZ and Open Range rewelding joints and even adding or moving braces either not installed or slightly off. A lot depends on the RV manufacturer for the total quality. Anyone can and will make mistakes.

[mwebber78]

JIMNLIN wrote:

Us out West wrote:
I would think ALL manufactures inspect/reject all out sourced products.

Many companies set up a outside sourse for parts/assemblies fabrication. The sourse is given the engineering specs to fab the part. After completing the first article the company sends a inspector to buy or reject the first part. Once the first part is bought no other parts are inspected after they arrive at the assembly plant. If down the line assembly finds the parts are bad and don't fit up the assy line workers are rtequired to fix the parts or fix around so the line doesn't shut down.
This is called "first time buyoff". This is how our aircraft companies works nowdays. I would assume a RV manufacturer are no different.

Exactly. I'm in the aerospace business and it's a First Article Inspection and depending on process Source Demonstration including destructive testing. After becoming qualified, it's source a approved. Our company goes one step further and has a RX (Receiving Inspection) anytime the part goes to a vendor and returns. It's not that we don't trust our vendors - we are just that passionate about quality.

I would think once a RV manufacturer qualifies a source like Lippert, they'd at a minimum inspect a sample lot out of every frame. Seems to me that with a critical frame and axle/brake assembly SHOULD be inspected on a sample lot to ensure quality and safety. The other systems are checked during the PDI for functionality - why not the foundation of our RV?