Montana 5th wheel

[dstephens]

Once again I come to the forum for input (pro and con) on a particular make of 5th wheel. I don't want to start a war but the audience from this forum contains a wealth of knowledge.

I am looking at two different 5th wheels. One is a 2015 Cardinal 3030rs and the other is a NEW 2014 Montana 3150. I have been leaning toward the Cardinal until today. After very close inspection of the Cardinal, I don't feel that is is really put together very well. I have not been a fan of the Montana product in the past, but the unit we are looking at has a pot full of options and upgrades.
I would like to hear from anyone out there regarding quality, fit and finish etc. I have discovered that both trailers have much lower ground clearance that my 10 yr. old Jayco.
What say anyone.

Denverdale

[RVNevada]

We had a 2007 Montana Mountaineer and only had minor items go bad, we traveled from as far as Canada to Texas. Always took 2 long trips a year, so I don't know how many miles we traveled, The RV was a 32Ft 5th wheel and we pulled it with a 2007 Chevy 2500HD SBed We have been RVing since 2000 and have had Truck Campers, Trailers, and now we have an 43ft Toy Hauler...I have a 3500HD now Dual Wheel and what a change from the 2500HD and SWheel...Check the weight of the 5th Wheel before looking for a truck if you will need one, I did tow my Voltage a couple times, and it is about 16K before we put a lot of items into it, now I wouldn't pull it with anything smaller then a 3500, from any of the big 3 trucks....Good Luck on your Choice and good Rving

[The_Barbarian1]

I think I can respond to the original question. I purchased a 2014 Montana 3150RL last spring as soon as I saw Montana was switching to a 3155 model with changes to the floor plan. I am pulling it with a 2008 GMC 2500 SLT with Rancho 5000s to stiffen the ride and Air Ride Air Bags to even everything out. I've pulled it several thousand miles over the last year. Love the trailer, well built, well designed, and comfortable to pull and live in. Only complaint is watch the corners on the kitchen cabinets - clunked my head several times cooking dinner.

[dstephens]

I know you all mean well, but this is getting out of hand. You can keep telling me how to calculate my weight limits using some of your own methods as well as some industry standard methods. Just for the record, and you don't need to respond to this, here are the facts.
GVWR on the truck is 10000 lbs.
GCWR is 24500 lbs
GAWR front axel is 5200 lbs
GAWR rear axel is 6200 lbs.
Tires are lt265/70R18 LR 3525 @ 80 psi
The truck weighs 7820 with full tank or diesel and 5th wheel hitch.

Generally, the pin weight should be calculated at 15 to 20 % of GVW of the trailer.

I never load my trailer to max ( I know because I have weighed it with loaded for a trip.

Now please give this a rest.

By the way when I said lets close this thread, I mean quit adding to it. The thread was started to get opinions of the quality of 2 trailers I have been considering and now it is out of control.

Thanks again
Denverdale


Thanks ag

[Old-Biscuit]

OPs truck probably has a GVWR of 10,000# RAWR of 6200#

Very similar to what my ole 2007 3500 ratings are.

So with current 5th wheel he is running close to ratings.
The 2 NEW 5vrs he is contemplating will push him over GVWR/RAWR due to the wet pin weight.

Truck loaded up and current 5vr hooked up 'CAMP READY' then a trip across the scales will show..............reality check.

[richfaa]

The numbers are what they are. It is good to understand .One can do what they wish once they understand. There is a lot to learn but once you do it is not hard to figure out.

[Mile_High]

Me Again wrote:
It appears that 2013 2500HD LT models have LT245/75R17E rated to 3195 each and LTZ models have LT265/70R18E rated to 3525 each. So if you have the 18" rims and tires you do not have that much to worry about except maybe some air bags! Chris

Me Again wrote:

Mile High wrote:
Don't they put door stickers on Chevrolets? I'm not sure this has to be a mystery. Using brochures or websites is like getting your palms read. The payload should be printed in the door, either on the tire sticker or the GVWR sticker.

Sorry dstephens - you are not empowered to close a thread :W You are only empowered to open it, like a can of worms.

Door stickers do not include 5th wheel hitches

Of course they don't - that's a silly thing to say. The door sticker is going to be 10,000 times more accurate than what you were reading online or out of a brochure when you said he doesn't have that much to worry about. If the OP would post his door sticker payload, then we could help start adding up his expected payload by adding hitch, people, fuel, etc.

[richfaa]

Well I will post it again......"keep working on understanding the weight issue and when you do understand make the call. Let me use my numbers as a example.

The truck in my signature has a GVW of 13,000lbs and pay load capacity of 4268lbs and a GCWR of 23,500lbs (the total the truck and Rv can weigh)

The payload is the weight that we can carry IN THE TRUCK The truck ready to tow, full fuel and everything on board that we normally carry to tow is 9,000 .

now to get the actual payload we must subtract the the weight of the truck 9,000lbs from the GVW of 13,000lbs leaving 4,000lbs as the actual payload capacity not 4268 listed on the door sticker. That means that we have 4,000lbs left for my pin weight since we have weighed the truck ready to tow. Actual pin weight is 3,000 lbs give or take a few lbs so we are within limits on pin weight and that is the major difference between a 3/4 and one ton dually.

Now the Montana GVW is 15,805lbs and my truck GCVW is 23,500lbs.To determine my actual GCVW I must subtract the known truck weight from the RV sticker weight of 15,805 and we come up with 14,400lbs NOT 15,805lbs. IF the Montana were fully loaded to its GVW we would be OVERWEIGHT. We are not loaded to capacity and we are under the 14,400lbs. You can only do the calculations if you know the actual weights. Not easy to understand but understand you must.

There are also things like Tire load capacity stated on the Rv and truck tires.

That it will "pull it fine" means nothing and can hurt you.

[Me_Again]

Mile High wrote:
Don't they put door stickers on Chevrolets? I'm not sure this has to be a mystery. Using brochures or websites is like getting your palms read. The payload should be printed in the door, either on the tire sticker or the GVWR sticker.

Sorry dstephens - you are not empowered to close a thread :W You are only empowered to open it, like a can of worms.

Door stickers do not include 5th wheel hitches(maybe OP has the aluminum Andersen hitch) tools, extra fuel tanks, additional passengers beyond the 150 lb driver etc etc.

Most 4x4 diesel 250/2500's towing 5th wheels of any size are over their GVWR. Chris

[Mile_High]

Don't they put door stickers on Chevrolets? I'm not sure this has to be a mystery. Using brochures or websites is like getting your palms read. The payload should be printed in the door, either on the tire sticker or the GVWR sticker.

Sorry dstephens - you are not empowered to close a thread :W You are only empowered to open it, like a can of worms.

[Me_Again]

It appears that 2013 2500HD LT models have LT245/75R17E rated to 3195 each and LTZ models have LT265/70R18E rated to 3525 each. So if you have the 18" rims and tires you do not have that much to worry about except maybe some air bags! Chris

[Me_Again]

dstephens wrote:
Ok I give up. I had weighed the old truck (2002 2500hd) and I was not overweight at that time. According to the info in this thread, I should be able to pull a small utility trailer. HA Ha. I will try to get over to the scales today to weigh my truck. I am still looking at numbers to make sure that I don't go overweight.
I appreciate all the comments.

I think it is time to end this thread. Again, thanks to all of you for you information.

Denverdale

Some people do not worry to much about the trucks GVWR and tow over that number, myself included. My truck has the optional LT265/75R16E rated to 3415 lbs each, so I have 6830 lbs of capacity on the rear axle without going over the tire rating.

The real issue with 5th wheels is that 99.5-99.9 percent of the Pin(hitch) weight goes on the rear axle. Additionally most SRW trucks RGAWR is set by the tires installed. So once you know the actual rear axle weight ready to tow, subtract that number from your RGAWR to know how much pin weight you can handle without going over the tire rating.

Going over the tire rating is not good!

Now take the new trailers GVWR and multiply it by 20% to get an idea of what your pin weight will be fully load. So for a 16400 GVWR trailer the pin weight can be around 3280 pounds. There in is the problem if this much pin weight puts you over the tire rating. We already know that it is more weight than the trucks carrying capacity.

That is why I stated watch out for Cardinals pin weight, as it will be more than the standard 20%. You need to go to the Montana forum and find out more about that models real world pin weight.

This document lists some tow ratings.

What is the size and rating of the tires on the truck. It appears from the document above it could have 17, 18 or 20" tires. 18's and 20's tend to have higher ratings if they are similar to what RAM is using with 3640 lbs capacity each.
Chris

[dstephens]

Ok I give up. I had weighed the old truck (2002 2500hd) and I was not overweight at that time. According to the info in this thread, I should be able to pull a small utility trailer. HA Ha. I will try to get over to the scales today to weigh my truck. I am still looking at numbers to make sure that I don't go overweight.
I appreciate all the comments.

I think it is time to end this thread. Again, thanks to all of you for you information.

Denverdale

[richfaa]

keep working on understanding the weight issue and when you do understand make the call. Let me use my numbers as a example.

The truck in my signature has a GVW of 13,000lbs and pay load capacity of 4268lbs and a GCWR of 23,500lbs (the total the truck and Rv can weigh)

The payload is the weight that we can carry IN THE TRUCK The truck ready to tow, full fuel and everything on board that we normally carry to tow is 9,000 .

now to get the actual payload we must subtract the the weight of the truck 9,000lbs from the GVW of 13,000lbs leaving 4,000lbs as the actual payload capacity not 4268 listed on the door sticker. That means that we have 4,000lbs left for my pin weight since we have weighed the truck ready to tow. Actual pin weight is 3,000 lbs give or take a few lbs so we are within limits on pin weight and that is the major difference between a 3/4 and one ton dually.

Now the Montana GVW is 15,805lbs and my truck GCVW is 23,500lbs.To determine my actual GCVW I must subtract the known truck weight from the RV sticker weight of 15,805 and we come up with 14,400lbs NOT 15,805lbs. IF the Montana were fully loaded to its GVW we would be OVERWEIGHT. We are not loaded to capacity and we are under the 14,400lbs. You can only do the calculations if you know the actual weights. Not easy to understand but understand you must.

There are also things like Tire load capacity stated on the Rv and truck tires.

That it will "pull it fine" means nothing and can hurt you.

[hone_eagle]

i will post my pin weight from a CAT scale to Illustrate what the 'ol timers ' are trying to warn you about.
4040 lbs, thats a 36' trailer .
What did the 'paperwork' say ?
2800 lbs.