Need to look at those weight labels

[minnow]

A week or so back I posted a question about differing net carrying capacities amongst different manufactures with basically the same floor plans and lengths. Some were twice as much as others.
We were at an RV show yesterday and I was shocked at what the advertised brochure said the NCC was and what the actual NCC was as listed on the trailers weight sticker. I found the greatest discrepancy on Forest River and their different brands of fifth wheels.
A couple of the models, the brochure listed NCC as 1500 lbs and the actual NCC was just 900 lbs. With that low of a NCC, I think most of us would be overweight pulling out of the driveway for a weeks vacation. Is it any wonder, why there are so many tire and axle complaint topics ?
The trailers weight sticker can usually be found on the street side, front of the unit and buyers really need to look at them.

[nremtp143]

Another funny thing, they are the same tires! The tires had the "Load Capacity" for 7k axles, but you have to change the wheels to 8 lug instead of 6 lug. At Tredit Tire, a supplier to most of the trailer industry, the wheels are the same price too.

[alboy]

Have too add the cost of upgraded tires, another 100.00 bucks to the package.Very few trailers put on a lot of mileage,,they know that and may have too deal with the 10% that due, jerk them around a bit,take there Bonus and call it a day.

[nremtp143]

laknox wrote:

nremtp143 wrote:

shadoow wrote:
there was a thread on here some time back where the guy had a negative NCC. Had a pic of his sticker in the post. I think the outcome involved the RV manufacturer doing something to the trailer to provide more load capacity so it wasn't just a bum sticker.

I may have been that guy. My 5er only had 137 pounds of CCC before it was ever loaded. I went to FR and politely told them what I needed, which was for them to change the 6k axles out to 7k axles. After several conversations, and a "shot across the bow" so to speak, they delivered and have changed numerous axles on my model camper and its sister the Sierra in the last two years.

So, it was only an axle change that upped your CCC? No frame mods? While I find it absolutely incomprehensible that something like this could hit the streets, I'm 100% not surprised. I'd be willing to bet that some engineer there wrote a memo that was ignored or just s***canned by the higher-ups, sorta like the NASA execs who ignored the reports about shuttle booster o-rings and cold weather from =several= previous launches. Still, you only get 1,137 CCC MAX, with that axle swap.

Lyle

Yes. The frame is the same one under several of their other campers that length that all have 7k axles under them. They claimed to not have known that the trailer actually weighed that much DRY! I had to send them pics of my labels, then they built another one just like mine and weighed and then that's when they realized there was a problem. I'm not sure I believe that. I have a very long thread under the Forest River Forums under my name "golfmedik" that drew LOTS of attention. Problem is that they are still denying some owners the upgrade when they weighed virtually the same as mine. Some have obtained counsel I believe. But now, if what I'm seeing on the net is true, FR is under a NHTSA investigation on faulty specs, recalls and such. Funny thing, I could buy the 7k axles off of the net for $28 a piece higher than the 6k that are WAY overweight on these rigs.SO, with all of the purchasing power they have, you know the difference would've been much smaller. Going from a pair of 6k axles to a pair of 7k axles gives you a 2k pound difference.

[Lantley]

Brochure figures are often misleading. However you have to understand what the brochure weights represent. THey are generally for a base model unit with no options. This very similar to trucks . The brochure weights are also based on stripped basic models.
The brochure starts with a base model every option you add reduces the cargo capacity. Add a a 2nd A/C deduct 100#. Add a 4 door fridge deduct 100#. Add a genset deduct 300#. Dual pane windows deduct 200#. U lounge sofa deduct 200#. King bed deduct 50#. Each option subtracts weight from the CCC.
Once you understand what the brochure numbers represent the figures are not as misleading.
This is why brochure dry weight numbers should not be used when matching a truck/RV combo. Brochure numbers are an OK starting point but they are seldom 100% accurate

[laknox]

nremtp143 wrote:

shadoow wrote:
there was a thread on here some time back where the guy had a negative NCC. Had a pic of his sticker in the post. I think the outcome involved the RV manufacturer doing something to the trailer to provide more load capacity so it wasn't just a bum sticker.

I may have been that guy. My 5er only had 137 pounds of CCC before it was ever loaded. I went to FR and politely told them what I needed, which was for them to change the 6k axles out to 7k axles. After several conversations, and a "shot across the bow" so to speak, they delivered and have changed numerous axles on my model camper and its sister the Sierra in the last two years.

So, it was only an axle change that upped your CCC? No frame mods? While I find it absolutely incomprehensible that something like this could hit the streets, I'm 100% not surprised. I'd be willing to bet that some engineer there wrote a memo that was ignored or just s***canned by the higher-ups, sorta like the NASA execs who ignored the reports about shuttle booster o-rings and cold weather from =several= previous launches. Still, you only get 1,137 CCC MAX, with that axle swap.

Lyle

[nremtp143]

shadoow wrote:
there was a thread on here some time back where the guy had a negative NCC. Had a pic of his sticker in the post. I think the outcome involved the RV manufacturer doing something to the trailer to provide more load capacity so it wasn't just a bum sticker.

I may have been that guy. My 5er only had 137 pounds of CCC before it was ever loaded. I went to FR and politely told them what I needed, which was for them to change the 6k axles out to 7k axles. After several conversations, and a "shot across the bow" so to speak, they delivered and have changed numerous axles on my model camper and its sister the Sierra in the last two years.

[The_Mad_Norsky]

minnow wrote:
Well that's a little too late isn't it. Wouldn't I want to know the true NCC before I put down 35 grand ?

35 grand is a lot, but some years back on another forum which caters almost exclusively to DRV Mobile Suites, there was a big ruckus made when folks who had spent a whole lot more found that with options and everything their hugely expensive Mobile Suites did not have much carrying capacity either.

They were close to the trailers gross vehicle weight rating before packing the first can of soup.

I'd say they were soundly disappointed and really rather peeved about the whole thing.

Having to guess now which years that was for certain Mobile Suites models, but the 2005-2006 years seems about right.

[Slownsy]

What it says is what it is, always states they can change specs at anytime.
Frank.

[Columbis]

After our purchase, I noticed the listed weight on the yellow label on the 5th wheel said 9054 lbs, but when I was looking through paper work after home from buying. The Origin of Title stated 9198 lbs. So I figured after adding 435 lbs(2-30gal propane full, 6 gal water heater, 10 gal fresh water and battery) this put us at 9633. After adding our stuff for a short trip 587 lbs brought us to trailer total of 10220 lbs. Adding truck 10189 lbs, (us, stuff and 20% pin weight), put us at Combined cgvw of 20409 lbs rolling down the road.
At least I have a buffer for holding tank weight and more stuff. My combined for my truck is 22,000. My truck is a 2012 Ford F350 6.2 gas w/ 4.30 axle. Kind of funny, just for fun I looked up new F350's for 2013-2015 and now they can carry 500 more pounds.???? Do you think Ford fudges on weight numbers?.

[goducks10]

laknox wrote:

dahkota wrote:
Sometimes, the net cargo carrying capacity includes a full tank of water. Our last tt had two CCCs: one with full fresh water included and one without.

I noticed this on some Jayco rigs. They give weights with full fresh water, 1 battery and full propane. Personally, I hadn't see that before. Just one more thing that you have to pay attention to.

Lyle

Open Range RV does the same. One w/o water, one with water.

[laknox]

dahkota wrote:
Sometimes, the net cargo carrying capacity includes a full tank of water. Our last tt had two CCCs: one with full fresh water included and one without.

I noticed this on some Jayco rigs. They give weights with full fresh water, 1 battery and full propane. Personally, I hadn't see that before. Just one more thing that you have to pay attention to.

Lyle

[minnow]

wing_zealot wrote:
... A couple of the models, the brochure listed NCC as 1500 lbs and the actual NCC was just 900... Means nothing taken out of context. You have to know what is already included and what isn't. 900 lbs on one could be equal to 2000 lbs on another; depending on what is included in the number and what isn't.

Not sure I follow you. IF the tag says not to carry more than 900 lbs and another unit of similar size and floor plan allows 2700, why wouldn't I want to buy the one that provides more NCC. As I understand it, the last thing that occurs after the trailer is fully built out is that it is weighed. So that build out number will include all the options & extras the manufacturer added to the base model(Which is probably the NCC number found in the sales brochure). To me the NCC seems to me to a very important number to consider when buying. A trailer with a 900 lb. NCC would most certainly be overloaded with all the necessities a family of four would pack for a weekend jaunt. Saying nothing about adding a generator. More weight than what the axles, frames and tires were designed for cannot be a good thing.

[wing_zealot]

... A couple of the models, the brochure listed NCC as 1500 lbs and the actual NCC was just 900... Means nothing taken out of context. You have to know what is already included and what isn't. 900 lbs on one could be equal to 2000 lbs on another; depending on what is included in the number and what isn't.

[shadoow]

there was a thread on here some time back where the guy had a negative NCC. Had a pic of his sticker in the post. I think the outcome involved the RV manufacturer doing something to the trailer to provide more load capacity so it wasn't just a bum sticker.