New to fifth wheels - help with trailer weight

[ESDA]

I have had a tow behind for many years, but now am looking at fifth wheels. Want to make sure what my truck can handle. I have a 2020 GMC AT4 2500 HD Diesel that has a payload max of 3048 and trailer rating of 19,198. Starting looking a toy haulers, one in particular. It’s weight is 12,650 which should not be a problem, however the hitch weight is 3,175. Am I correct that the hitch weight on a fifth wheel acts the same as the hitch weight as a tow behind, meaning that I will be over payload. I would assume that since this is a toy hauler, when hauling a golf cart or other type of vehicle this would help balance out the hitch weight, but would it be too much if I am not hauling a vehicle?

[Thermoguy]

I have a 3/4 ton Chev a few years older. After doing some research on Toy Haulers, or at least what I would want with a rear garage, I quickly came to the decision I would need a new truck. Preferably a 1 ton dually. Adding air bags, suspension upgrades, etc, doesn't solve the problem. By the time you spend thousands upgrading, you could just upgrade to a new truck. You might still want air bags and other upgrades on the 1 ton...

[MFL]

Flashman said:

"I believe that a toy loaded in the rear behind the trailer axles will reduce the pin weight."

While that is a brilliant deduction Flashman, here is what you are missing!!

The wheels are not in the center of a TH, like the teeter totter you remember.
Much of the normal load will be in the kitchen, living area, and bedroom closets, dressers/drawers. How bout that huge basement loaded full of gear. Where are the heavy batteries, and propane tanks?

To be fair, if your LOADED trailer pin wt is now 4K lbs, and you load 1K in the garage, yup the pin will lighten a little.

Jerry

[Flashman]

MFL wrote:
A TH usually has a higher pin wt. That is about 25%, where many FWs are closer to 20%. No, that TH pin will not get lighter with toys, as the normal load will be toward the front.

With a FW, nearly all weight will be on your rear axle, so that is the most important rating. The newer GM 2500s have a higher RAWR than earlier years. If you loaded your truck, ready to go, with everything in it, including passengers, and full fuel, checked separate axle wts, you would know what you have left for pin wt, plus about 175 lbs for the hitch.

Let's guess your weighed rear axle is 3K, and your RAWR is 6,600. You will be close to maxed out, with that trailer.

Jerry

I believe that a toy loaded in the rear behind the trailer axles will reduce the pin weight.

[JIMNLIN]

ESDA wrote:
Is there a safe way to increase the payload capacity of the truck, like adding bigger springs or anything?

I would add to MFL reply about tires/suspension upgrades....wheels also will need upgrading
Some truck camper owners with 3/4 ton and one ton single rear wheel trucks go with 19.5" tires and wheels carrying those heavy 4k-5k truck campers. 19.5" wheels are expensive but have in excess of 4k lb + capacity.

Separate truck axle (frt/rear) CAT scale weights will tell you what your trucks suspension needs will be....along with the trailers GVWR numbers.
If the trailers number you posted is its GVWR then your good to go.

[valhalla360]

ESDA wrote:
My truck has RGAWR of 6600, GCWR of 27,500 and a curb weight of 8,302. Per the trailer specs it has a hitch weight of 3,175 and a dry weight of 12,650. I have not yet bought the trailer so I cannot take it to a scale yet. Trying to figure out if this will be too much hitch weight for the truck. I assume that since it is a toy hauler, if loaded in the back the hitch weight would go down a bit. However, we probably would not always have the back fully loaded.

With a toy hauler, you likely have a cargo weight of 3-4,000, so you are looking at probably 15-16,000lb ready to roll.

At typical 20-25% hitch (aka: pin) weight, you are looking at 3500-4000lb.

Keep in mind passengers, other cargo in the truck and bolt on stuff (like running boards) also count against payload.

This is going to be way over the trucks limits.

[MFL]

Safe way...depends on what is considered safe. Yes, you can add suspension enhancement, to keep the truck level. Many add airbags, or other means to level.

Your tires are the next issue, possible weak link? This the reason for DRW trucks, which greatly increases the RAWR.

Jerry

[ESDA]

Is there a safe way to increase the payload capacity of the truck, like adding bigger springs or anything?

[QCMan]

Ignore the dry weight as it is meaningless. Go by max gross weight and use 22% as a relatively safe number for pin weight. The trailer will probably weigh more than that dry weight by the time it gets to the dealer.

[MFL]

A TH usually has a higher pin wt. That is about 25%, where many FWs are closer to 20%. No, that TH pin will not get lighter with toys, as the normal load will be toward the front.

With a FW, nearly all weight will be on your rear axle, so that is the most important rating. The newer GM 2500s have a higher RAWR than earlier years. If you loaded your truck, ready to go, with everything in it, including passengers, and full fuel, checked separate axle wts, you would know what you have left for pin wt, plus about 175 lbs for the hitch.

Let's guess your weighed rear axle is 3K, and your RAWR is 6,600. You will be close to maxed out, with that trailer.

Jerry

[ESDA]

My truck has RGAWR of 6600, GCWR of 27,500 and a curb weight of 8,302. Per the trailer specs it has a hitch weight of 3,175 and a dry weight of 12,650. I have not yet bought the trailer so I cannot take it to a scale yet. Trying to figure out if this will be too much hitch weight for the truck. I assume that since it is a toy hauler, if loaded in the back the hitch weight would go down a bit. However, we probably would not always have the back fully loaded.

[BB_TX]

Yes, the hitch weight is considered payload and goes against your payload rating. And be aware, posted hitch weights, or dry weights or shipping wrights, are the weights of an empty trailer. Loaded, the hitch weight will be higher. And if you load heavy it will be much higher.

[JIMNLIN]

2020 GM 2500 trucks can have a 6390 or 6600 rawr that will be carrying all the trailer hitch weigh....everything in the bed.

The 6390 rawr version is probably with the smaller 17" tire sizes and good for approx 3200-3300 lbs in the bed.

The 6600 RAWR comes with the larger 18"-20" tires and good for around 3500-3600 lbs in the bed.
You have the truck so like all truckers you need to stop at a CAT scale and get the trucks separate front and rear axle weights. Generally 2500 gm trucks rear axle can weigh in the 3000 lb range however its best to know exact axle weights for safety reasons.

Is your 12600 lb weight numbers the trailers gvwr gvwr or a brochure dry weight ?? Depending on how much CCC the trailer has it can be best to use the full gvwr.