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Red Propane Regulator - Why?

PmsPks
Explorer
Explorer
OK folks. I need someone to enlighten me on why the red high pressure propane regulator on my "curb-side" tank is required. I have a 3 - 20# bottle system, 2 bottles on road side and one on curb side. The two on road side, one goes into one side of the auto changeover regulator, the other into the other side of the auto changeover via a tee, which has the line from the curb side bottle. It seems to me that the red regulator is really not needed since that line goes into the tee with a non-regulated bottle. Am I missing something here? Reason for asking is the red regulator leaks badly around the edge crimp when I turn on the non-regulated bottle on the other side. I have a new one on order by the way.
Paul & Pam
2007 Damon Tuscany 4076
2007 Jeep Wrangler
14 REPLIES 14

Mile_High
Explorer
Explorer
Stefonius wrote:
DiskDoctr wrote:
I didn't see anyone post the purpose of a red (1st/single stage) regulator, though some hinted at the workings.
I wonder if the OP's rig came with the "Generator Prep" package. The red regulator is used to supply propane to a built-in LP genset, and the regulator would be present in the system if the unit was prepped for a generator by the factory.


No I've had a generator in all my 5ers and they run off regulated gas downstream of the changeover regulator. The red regulator is on the LP tank distal from the automatic changeover regulator. Gas downstream of the red regulator goes directly into the changeover regulator.
2013 Winnebago Itasca Meridian 42E
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara Towed

Stefonius
Explorer
Explorer
DiskDoctr wrote:
I didn't see anyone post the purpose of a red (1st/single stage) regulator, though some hinted at the workings.
I wonder if the OP's rig came with the "Generator Prep" package. The red regulator is used to supply propane to a built-in LP genset, and the regulator would be present in the system if the unit was prepped for a generator by the factory.
2003 F450 Crew Cab, 7.3 PSD "Truckasaurus"
2010 Coachmen North Ridge 322RLT fiver "Habitat for Insanity"
I love my tent, but the DW said, "RV or Divorce"...

Mr__Black
Explorer
Explorer
Mile High wrote:


They are cheap regulators, and are a hazard greater than what they are trying to overcome - 2 of mine have leaked. I just remove them altogether.


I had this same thing happen in our Forest River Sierra. I went to a local RV parts place that's been around since they created dirt, and they said the same thing. Get rid of it. It's more dangerous then not having it.

Never noticed a difference in operation. Your results may vary.
Steve

2006 Ford F350 6.0 PSD CC 4x4 LB, Bone Stock. B&W Turnover / Companion. Airlift Airbags 57291. Leveling Kit. RS9000 Shocks.

2012 Heartland Sundance 3100RB 5th wheel. 36' @ 12k pounds.

Mile_High
Explorer
Explorer
Old-Biscuit wrote:
Mile High wrote:
Actually it provides back pressure on the on the cylinder furthest from the main regulator, to prevent the safety valve from slamming shut if you open it too fast. Didn't used to be an issue until the design of the cylinders changed to the high flow safety shutoff.

They are cheap regulators, and are a hazard greater than what they are trying to overcome - 2 of mine have leaked. I just remove them altogether.


The excess flow shut-off is in the hose......not in propane cylinder.
Propane cylinder does have a spring loaded valve that closes when hose is disconnected. Can not get flow from cylinder without hose attached.


Yes there is ball check in the hose, and there is an OPD, but there is also an excess flow check valve in the cylinder valve:

Check Valve - The check valve is designed to gauge the pressure of the gas as it leaves the propane cylinder. Because the gas grill should have all valves in the "off" position when the gas is turned on the pressure stops at the valve and is re-checked by the valve at the tank. If there is a leak or if the grill control valves are in the "on" position pressure is released and the pressure checked at the valve is different. When this happens the check valve is designed to stop gas flow through the valve. The problem with the check valve is that it is very sensitive and when a tank is full, with the additional pressure of the OPD float pushing on the liquid, the gas can push through the check valve so strongly it checks the check valve by mistake. This happens frequently.
2013 Winnebago Itasca Meridian 42E
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara Towed

DiskDoctr
Explorer
Explorer
I didn't see anyone post the purpose of a red (1st/single stage) regulator, though some hinted at the workings.

A propane bottle stores propane at a high pressure, too high for normal consumption, and keeps a large amount of the propane in liquid form.

The normal propane appliances use low pressure propane vapor, not liquid.

Regulators reduce the high pressure to low pressure.

But....the catch is this pressure reduction (and volume expansion into low pressure gas form) can cause a substantial cooling effect inside the regulator.

For small volumes, not a problem. For higher volume appliances, multiple appliances used at once, or colder outside temps, this can cause freeze ups of the regulator.

Splitting this process into '2 stages' with a red 'high pressure' regulator, then a final low pressure regulator, can reduce this problem and deliver a higher, often more reliable gas flow.

There are '2 stage regulators' that look like a double regulator, but are one unit. But there is no reason these two stages cannot be separated by a length of tubing/pipe.

Think of it this way. Bottle is storage, red/1st stage/high pressure is used for (high volume or "inside") distribution, and 2nd stage/appliance inbuilt/low pressure is for final consumption.

For houses, it is not permitted to run unregulated lp within the structure (directly from bottle/tank). It MUST be reduced at least to 1st stage. It is common to have a 1st stage regulator at the tank or on the outside of the building, thenn thee line enters and branches throughout the building, then have multiple 2nd stage regulators near the points of consumption.

I don't know if that is the same reasoning for DOT regs or what they are, but it would make sense ๐Ÿ˜‰

The important thing is NOT to mix lines of different stages of regulation, and NEVER NEVER NEVER send un-regulated lp to an appliance that does not have the proper regulator.

Old-Biscuit
Explorer III
Explorer III
Mile High wrote:
Actually it provides back pressure on the on the cylinder furthest from the main regulator, to prevent the safety valve from slamming shut if you open it too fast. Didn't used to be an issue until the design of the cylinders changed to the high flow safety shutoff.

They are cheap regulators, and are a hazard greater than what they are trying to overcome - 2 of mine have leaked. I just remove them altogether.


The excess flow shut-off is in the hose......not in propane cylinder.
Propane cylinder does have a spring loaded valve that closes when hose is disconnected. Can not get flow from cylinder without hose attached.
Is it time for your medication or mine?


2007 DODGE 3500 QC SRW 5.9L CTD In-Bed 'quiet gen'
2007 HitchHiker II 32.5 UKTG 2000W Xantex Inverter
US NAVY------USS Decatur DDG31

Mile_High
Explorer
Explorer
Actually it provides back pressure on the on the cylinder furthest from the main regulator, to prevent the safety valve from slamming shut if you open it too fast. Didn't used to be an issue until the design of the cylinders changed to the high flow safety shutoff.

They are cheap regulators, and are a hazard greater than what they are trying to overcome - 2 of mine have leaked. I just remove them altogether.
2013 Winnebago Itasca Meridian 42E
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara Towed

PmsPks
Explorer
Explorer
OK guys, thanks for the input. What I have discovered is two things. One, the off side regulator is a DOT requirement. Two, my propane system is plumbed wrong, thus causing the regulator to fail. In a three bottle system, the two unregulated bottles are teed together and go into one side of the auto changeover regulator, the regulated, off-side bottle goes into the other side of the auto changeover regulator. Done.
Paul & Pam
2007 Damon Tuscany 4076
2007 Jeep Wrangler

Old-Biscuit
Explorer III
Explorer III
GASMAN6674 wrote:
It is to keep the propane vapor from the 3rd curb side tank from turning back to liquid in the line. Under the correct temperature and pressure (anything over 20psi)propane vapor can turn back to liquid. Yes it is a safety feature


Normal propane cylinder pressure can be 150#-200#.
Red Regulator drops cylinder pressure down to 30# before crossing over to the main 2 stage regulator that drops pressure down to 15# (1st stage) and then down to roughly 0.4# (11" WC) 2nd stage outlet feeding propane system.
Is it time for your medication or mine?


2007 DODGE 3500 QC SRW 5.9L CTD In-Bed 'quiet gen'
2007 HitchHiker II 32.5 UKTG 2000W Xantex Inverter
US NAVY------USS Decatur DDG31

GASMAN6674
Explorer
Explorer
It is to keep the propane vapor from the 3rd curb side tank from turning back to liquid in the line. Under the correct temperature and pressure (anything over 20psi)propane vapor can turn back to liquid. Yes it is a safety feature
Jim & Debbie England
Do you have Gas? Propane Exceptional Energy
2015 F350 CCLB 6.2L/4:30 Vermilion Red
2020 Cougar 364BHLGone but not forgotten 2012 Ridgeline 34RLT fifth wheel/2012 V27FK V-Cross TT

3_dog_nights
Explorer
Explorer
Red Propane Regulator - Why?

cause the blue ones were all used up???
Bob & Lynn
2 Chihuahua's, Ella, Gracie

was-2013 Open Range 424RLS,06' Chevy 3500, dually, Duramax/Allison

also was - 2015 Winnebago Adventurer 37F, towing 2003 Jeep Wrangler

now - 2021 NoBo 19.5, 2019 Honda Ridgeline RTL (Talk about downsizing!)

PmsPks
Explorer
Explorer
That would make sense if the line was running somewhere other than the same compartment as the other two bottles.
Paul & Pam
2007 Damon Tuscany 4076
2007 Jeep Wrangler

newman_fulltime
Explorer
Explorer
its a safety deal to regulate the line going through the trailer

Paul_Clancy
Explorer
Explorer
These are known to leak. Not sure why it is needed but I did replace one on my last trailer but I believe the replacement was higher flow. Luckily cheap (probably why they fail - 3rd world part).