Sailun Tire Failure

[cummins2014]

It was bound to happen, and it did. Any experts want to weigh in? Luckily, no damage to fifth wheel or rim. 2 year old Sailun S637 , inflated to 100 psi.

[buc1980]

I want to let everybody know that Simple tire got the SAILUN on sale for trailers tires.

[Lynnmor]

BZawlocki wrote:


I'll tell you that I was super happy that GY decided to build the Endurance tire in the US. And I'm even more pleased that it seems to be doing very well. My only problem with the Endurance - and I know this is really my problem - is that I'm mad at GY for making the Marathon tire for so many years even when they knew it was a crappy tire.

The Marathons were made in the USA and were a reasonably good tire, then production was moved to China where they made junk. Next, Goodyear moved it back to the USA till they made changes in production in China. Then back to China where junk again was produced.

All this talk about quality control is just that, talk. Folks that never worked on the factory floor have no clue about what goes on. To make a quality product it takes workers that care about what they do and that is the root of the problems in some countries. Yes, I have dealt with ISO9001 and all those programs of the month and know that many have no value, just feel good stuff to entertain those that never touch the product.

[CapriRacer]

twodownzero wrote:
….. The Chinese manufacture all kinds of things. The examples of them screwing up technically complex manufacturing are so numerous as to be common knowledge at this point. …...

50 years ago, the same could have been said about the Japanese - and that is no longer true. At some point it won't be true of the Chinese - and even today, there are some high quality items coming out of China, so the process has started.

[BZawlocki]

twodownzero wrote:
First of all, standards are only as useful as the people enforcing them. The Chinese manufacture all kinds of things. The examples of them screwing up technically complex manufacturing are so numerous as to be common knowledge at this point. Would you want something made out of a high strength steel made in China? Or something that had to be precisely machined or cast? My guess is you wouldn't. The Chinese are absolutely awful at quality control.

All heavy duty tires are going to be sensitive to inflation. Tires used for hard use have to be inflated properly or they will get hot and fail. It's not unique to the Chinese tires. It is my opinion that all trailer tires should be inflated at or near their max PSI regardless of loading.

I disagree that a tire "over inflated" for the load will necessarily wear in a certain manner. That is true for cars and trucks, but trailers are different in how the tires are loaded. Trailer tires, for example, do not turn nor is power ever applied to them. Trailer tires are basically dragged.

I also never said that ST tires are the best option for a trailer. In fact, I have been using truck tires on trailers for years, and often times, they are the best option. Most ST tires are garbage. Most ST tires are rated for 65 MPH. I am using the Goodyear Endurance right now and I am happy with the performance so far, but if I have a failure, I'm going back to truck tires.

Yes, some ST trailers have stiff sidewalls. So do all LT tires. You know what makes tires stiffer? Putting more air in them.

Chinese tires are trash. The tire that is the subject matter of this thread failed from a construction issue. Fortunately it didn't cause any secondary damage, which does happen in a lot of these cases. If I lucked out like that, I'd be so happy to only have to replace the bad tire and not have done any serious harm to the trailer.

Everyone doesn't have to agree with me, either. I spent a LOT of time thinking about this and reading when I was shopping for tires. Ultimately, I just couldn't persuade myself that risking it with Chinese tires was worth a few bucks. Losing a tire on a trip could really ruin my recreational time. I don't think it's worth it. You might.

I can certainly understand your thoughts about quality control in China.

I'll tell you that I was super happy that GY decided to build the Endurance tire in the US. And I'm even more pleased that it seems to be doing very well. My only problem with the Endurance - and I know this is really my problem - is that I'm mad at GY for making the Marathon tire for so many years even when they knew it was a crappy tire.

There is an old saying, "screw me once, shame on you, screw me twice shame on me" - I might be paraphasing LOL.

Have a good evening and thanks for the discussion.

Bill

[BZawlocki]

nremtp143 wrote:
The Sailun S637 is the only Chinese made tire that meets BOTH the US import and export specs. The only one. Sailun is NOT a Chinese tire company. It is a European company that builds tires in China, much like GY, Michelin, BFG and so forth. In fact, Sailun is building two plants in NC now. We can't help people who will not do their own research instead of bashing every thing brand they've "heard" about. If the research was done, they would see millions of miles logged with these tires without many failures at all. ANY tire can fail, it's up to us to help mitigate that in the process by inspection, weighing the rig to get proper load capacity tires, TPMS,maintenance and driving the speed they are rated for. It's NOT just the tires. We have a responsibility as well.

Well said and I agree 100%.

Bill

[BZawlocki]

I'm glad you posted that - thank you. It's weird that it is so different than the response I got from Michelin.

Bill

[JIMNLIN]

I don't mean to sound like I'm bashing the XPS/Rib. In fact I ran them for many years. My point was that if you ask Michelin (as I have done several times) if Michelin will warranty the XPS/Rib when used in a trailer application. The answer I always get is the XPS/Rib is an LT tire and not suited for trailer use - Michelin will not warranty the XPS/Rib when used on a trailer.

Yours and others problem with Michelin is you may have backed them into the liability corner by the way you ask your tire question. What Michelin says has been going on for several years now so we know it all depends on how the question is phrased.
Lots of emails from Michelin floating around as this one. Notice the question doesn't back them into the liability corner such as asking does the Ribs replace a Load E ST tire/others. Sure we know a ST E has 3400-3600 lbs capacity so the LT E Ribs at 3042 lbs is not a replacement for the higher capacity tire.
.....Paste and copy from rv.net files....
In regards to the email you sent stating: Question..
I have a 2006 Montana 5th wheel Trailer that has two 6,000 lb Dexter axles and 4 deluxe aluminum Rims each rated at 3,042 lbs. I would like to install your Michelin XPS® Rib™ LT235/85 R16/E's on this 5th wheel. Will the tires be fully waranteed in this application?

Answer..--------
We appreciate your request for information regarding the Michelin XPS Rib. The XPS Rib, size LT235/85R16/E, part number 13080 would be a good fitment for your 5th wheel. The tire carries 3042Lbs at 80-psi max pressure. For best pressure recommendation, run at maximum pressure until you can weigh your axles either call or reply to this email for a pressure recommendation.
It is a good application, so there are no warranty issues. Your tires are covered under applicable warranty.
We appreciate your business and thank you for choosing Michelin**

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

For you guys that haven't been around the trailering industry long this is a old add from Michelin XPS Rib that was ran for many years and still good today.

****Michelin® XPS Rib® tires are the best value per mile in the Michelin commercial tire lineup and an ideal choice for commercial trailers because of low rolling resistance (for better fuel economy), a long-wear tread design and retreadability. These tires also have the strength of a reinforced all-steel construction for lasting durability.
Responsive handling helps you negotiate through tough traffic
Greater durability and puncture
resistance from a third steel belt.
Easily retreadable all-steel casing
Lowest cost per mile in this category
Resists sidewall damage with the sculptured sidewall protector.
Sidewall: black serrated
outline lettering.
Load Range: E
Service Description: 120/116Q ****

[cummins2014]

fj12ryder wrote:
"Chinese tires are trash. The tire that is the subject matter of this thread failed from a construction issue."

Are you psychic? You know for a fact that the tire failed from a construction issue? Please enlighten us in how you arrived at the conclusion. Ouija board? Tarot cards? Crystal ball? Tea leaves? Chicken entrails? Enquiring minds wish to know.

The conclusion from Sailun, as well as from a tire engineer that contacted me today, came to same conclusion loss of air, and thats when the tire overheated, and started coming apart.


Two year old tires with thousands of miles do not according to them, wait this long before showing its ugly head if its a manufacturing defect, they show up pretty quick. No it was not a defective tire.

As as far "twodownzero", and his construction issue, thats a mystery. He is not listening to the experience of anyone here , or anything for that matter, why some are trying , its futile, and a waste of time.

[nremtp143]

The Sailun S637 is the only Chinese made tire that meets BOTH the US import and export specs. The only one. Sailun is NOT a Chinese tire company. It is a European company that builds tires in China, much like GY, Michelin, BFG and so forth. In fact, Sailun is building two plants in NC now. We can't help people who will not do their own research instead of bashing every thing brand they've "heard" about. If the research was done, they would see millions of miles logged with these tires without many failures at all. ANY tire can fail, it's up to us to help mitigate that in the process by inspection, weighing the rig to get proper load capacity tires, TPMS,maintenance and driving the speed they are rated for. It's NOT just the tires. We have a responsibility as well.

[BZawlocki]

JIMNLIN wrote:

. Even when faced with the fact that 10s of thousands of folks use the Michelin XPS/Rib LT tire on their trailers, Michelin says that is not a warrantable application.

.
Oh lordy now you sound like the bird. A XPS Rib bash and he should be here quick.
Anyways as most folks knows Michelin does indeed offer applicable warranties on the Ribs for trailer service. Hell they still recommend them for commercial trailer service as in their older adds.

I don't mean to sound like I'm bashing the XPS/Rib. In fact I ran them for many years. My point was that if you ask Michelin (as I have done several times) if Michelin will warranty the XPS/Rib when used in a trailer application. The answer I always get is the XPS/Rib is an LT tire and not suited for trailer use - Michelin will not warranty the XPS/Rib when used on a trailer.

Now your experience may be different. And I know for certain that many thousands of folks use the XPS/Rib on trailers.

I just wish Michelin would come out with an XPS/Rib that they would warranty for trailer use.

Again, I am not bashing Michelin XPS/Rib.

Bill

[fj12ryder]

"Chinese tires are trash. The tire that is the subject matter of this thread failed from a construction issue."

Are you psychic? You know for a fact that the tire failed from a construction issue? Please enlighten us in how you arrived at the conclusion. Ouija board? Tarot cards? Crystal ball? Tea leaves? Chicken entrails? Enquiring minds wish to know.

[JIMNLIN]

. Even when faced with the fact that 10s of thousands of folks use the Michelin XPS/Rib LT tire on their trailers, Michelin says that is not a warrantable application.

.
Oh lordy now you sound like the bird. A XPS Rib bash and he should be here quick.
Anyways as most folks knows Michelin does indeed offer applicable warranties on the Ribs for trailer service. Hell they still recommend them for commercial trailer service as in their older adds.

[twodownzero]

First of all, standards are only as useful as the people enforcing them. The Chinese manufacture all kinds of things. The examples of them screwing up technically complex manufacturing are so numerous as to be common knowledge at this point. Would you want something made out of a high strength steel made in China? Or something that had to be precisely machined or cast? My guess is you wouldn't. The Chinese are absolutely awful at quality control.

All heavy duty tires are going to be sensitive to inflation. Tires used for hard use have to be inflated properly or they will get hot and fail. It's not unique to the Chinese tires. It is my opinion that all trailer tires should be inflated at or near their max PSI regardless of loading.

I disagree that a tire "over inflated" for the load will necessarily wear in a certain manner. That is true for cars and trucks, but trailers are different in how the tires are loaded. Trailer tires, for example, do not turn nor is power ever applied to them. Trailer tires are basically dragged.

I also never said that ST tires are the best option for a trailer. In fact, I have been using truck tires on trailers for years, and often times, they are the best option. Most ST tires are garbage. Most ST tires are rated for 65 MPH. I am using the Goodyear Endurance right now and I am happy with the performance so far, but if I have a failure, I'm going back to truck tires.

Yes, some ST trailers have stiff sidewalls. So do all LT tires. You know what makes tires stiffer? Putting more air in them.

Chinese tires are trash. The tire that is the subject matter of this thread failed from a construction issue. Fortunately it didn't cause any secondary damage, which does happen in a lot of these cases. If I lucked out like that, I'd be so happy to only have to replace the bad tire and not have done any serious harm to the trailer.

Everyone doesn't have to agree with me, either. I spent a LOT of time thinking about this and reading when I was shopping for tires. Ultimately, I just couldn't persuade myself that risking it with Chinese tires was worth a few bucks. Losing a tire on a trip could really ruin my recreational time. I don't think it's worth it. You might.

[BZawlocki]

fj12ryder wrote:
The tire pressure inflation chart for Sailun S637 tires:



With my individual tire load I could go as low as 65 psi and still have a safety margin of at least 20%. Personally I wouldn't go below 90 psi, just because anything much lower just feels too low. That's just me of course.

Many thanks to cummins2014 from whom I got the chart.

If I recall you have the AF27-5L? If so, that's what we have and I run 65psi on my Sailun S637 ST235/85R15.

Are you running the ST235/80R16s?

Bill

[BZawlocki]

twodownzero wrote:
While I agree that a tpms is a good idea, tires with solid quality control could have probably prevented this. Get the garbage Chinese tires off your rig and keep the new tires perfectly inflated and you will not have another failure short of road hazard. I also concur with the above posters that trailers should generally have their tires aired up to their max unless to solve funny wear or ride quality issues. The side loads on trailer tires are unique and hard tires are safer and will run cooler. Air and good construction will prevent blow outs.

In the past, I would generally tend to agree with you about the quality control of Chinese tires. But someone on a forum starting talking about Sailun S637 commerical trailer tires and I started to do some research.

I'm not sure if you are familiar with the ISO 9001 standard but it is essentially a set of standards for how a company operates and speaks to the belief that the company wants to adhere to quality.

Sailun has the ISO 9001 standard - it's not an easy accomplishment. So in my mind Sailun is not just like all the other Chinese tire makers.

Upon further internet research I just could not find even a single complaint about th S637 tire. It's an ST tire built for commerical use.

Now the rest of my comments are just my opinion so take them for what that's worth! LOL

Sailun openly says they market to a certain price point. They are not as expensive as many other G-Rated ST tires. My GUESS is that in order to make this price point they made a decision to make a tire that does NOT have a stress equalizer rib. I'm not a tire engineer but from what I can find the stress equalizer rib helps to combat irregular tire wear.

Again, this is my guess, but I think the Sailun S637 is a little more sensitive to proper inflation for the load than many of the more expensive tires in this category.

If the tire is over-inflated for the load, the tire does not sit properly on the ground and you can get weird tire shoulder wear. So my thinking is that for this particular tire that just going with the max PSI may not be the best practice.

I agree with you that RV trailer tires take a lot of side-ways stress and for that reason I believe that ST tires are the best solution for trailer. Even when faced with the fact that 10s of thousands of folks use the Michelin XPS/Rib LT tire on their trailers, Michelin says that is not a warrantable application. I know thousands if not millions of folks use LT tires on their trailers but if you ask the people at Michelin about trailer tires they will say they don't make an ST tire.

So, I'm gonna push back on your statement that all Chinese tires are junk - I think Sailun is an exception to your position. And my opinion is based on their track record plus the fact that the company really seems serious about achieving high standards.

Sorry for the long response.

Bill