SRW vs DRW

twodownzero wrote:

Wadcutter wrote:

twodownzero wrote:

It doesn't matter what your state says. If you're over your GVWR, you're overloaded.
If you need a law enforcement officer to ticket you in order to ensure you're loading your truck safely, I don't really know what to say.

Please! Let's stick with what is actually the law and not what someone think the law says or wishes the law said just to support their unsupported argument. People who spout off that stuff have never read a law or most likely even know where to look for it even if they could understand what they read.
No LEO is going to give him a ticket for being over the manufacturer's GVWR. There's a very simple reason why. The manufacturer's GVWR is a rating by the manufacturer. It's not a legal weight limit. Manufacturers do not make the law. It is a non-enforceable rating used only by the manufacturer for their ratings. It's not a legal document and has no bearing on legal weights.
I didn't get my knowledge from listening to some fat guy in a flannel shirt sitting around a campfire. I taught truck laws and weight laws for a lot of years. I was recognized by the courts and FMCS as an expert in truck laws and weights. If a person is going to use a legal comment to support their personal opinion then post the statute. At least it might show the person knows what they're talking about.

I can't get into an argument with you about the law because I am a lawyer and I wouldn't want anyone to interpret any of this as legal advice. Google "accidental client" if you need an explanation as to why. I can tell you that the sources of law in the United States are many and varied, what may apply to a given situation is generally pretty difficult for a layperson to apply. I can also tell by your response that you're not a lawyer, because the United States has 50 separate state's laws interacting with a myriad of federal statutes and administrative regulations in such a way that broad pronouncements like you made in your post are simply not possible. Were you to consult a lawyer in the relevant state, you could probably get an opinion on what the rule of law is for that state. I can say that the idea that you cannot be ticketed for loading beyond GVWR anywhere is false, as I am aware of places where that is not true. Regardless, you could still find yourself in serious hot water--with a court or your insurance company or worse--if you operate a vehicle that is unsafe. In those circumstances, it may not matter if your combination was legally licensed or not.

Tow ratings/vehicle ratings are not a matter that requires a legal discussion in any event. The law, in some instances, sets the minimal moral standard. Many of you posting here seem to be of the perspective that if something isn't illegal, it must be a good thing to do or therefore safe. A high school civics lesson is in order for those people--the government should not be setting your moral standard. I could go into the many examples of conduct that may be legal, but most would find questionable at the very least.

Tow ratings and vehicle ratings are matters of engineering. I leave those judgments to engineers and the companies who are willing to stand behind their products when used as intended. Just like I don't take twice the daily dose of Tylenol and hope my liver survives, I don't overload my truck by 20% and then pray it holds up in bad weather or an unforeseeable crash. I'm also not willing to risk finding myself in court explaining how I knew my truck was rated for x and I deliberately loaded it to 1.2x and took off down the roadway, endangering the public.

A person who is aware of a substantial and unjustifiable risk and takes it anyway could be charged with a crime if that risk caused injury or death to another person. I'm not talking about a traffic ticket or a fine. I'm talking about if you lose control of your vehicle combination and it kills someone, you could find yourself in prison.

I also couldn't say for sure, but I have serious doubt that an insurance company's policy would cover those circumstances. Insurance companies aren't exactly looking for ways not to pay, but they also cannot anticipate all of the ways people will use their vehicles beyond their manufactured limits.

The interesting thing about this discussion is that nobody would stand under a crane lifting 12,000 lbs on a rope rated for 10,000. Everyone knows there's an engineering factor in there, but none of you would put your life on the line to find out how much. The day is coming when RVers are going to be subjected to the same kind of scrutiny that commercial drivers are, because RVs are chronically overloaded and it's a miracle that they aren't involved in more incidents. All it's going to take is one high profile incident to end that forever, though, and I'm amazed every day that it hasn't happened already. We require special licenses for motorcycles but very rarely so for RVs, and yet many of them are very severely overloaded, perhaps even unknowingly.

If you need the law to tell you that your behavior is unsafe, I just hope we never compete for the same stretch of roadway.

twodownzero, to start I like your post, I had an experience on another forum with another member had a Toy Hauler not a 5th wheel, and was so set to not go over his GVWR towing it chose to lighten the tongue to the point that it induced sway in the combination. Now "Safety within GVWR on both the TV and TH, BUT in doing so created a unstable situation.
Now if he had chosen to run the TV over GVWR, we are talking a couple hundred pounds max, the combination would have been more stable, even over GVWR, but easily within tire and axle.
So to stay under the TV GVWR, in my opinion choose to tow in an unsafe condition even if he was within all ratings. Where if he would have gone over the TV GVWR, the package would have been safer, though not necessarily legal.
He did upgrade the TV shortly after that incident.