towing mileage of trucks

[forkedhorn]

Does anyone have a range of MPG for a F-450 dragging a 18,000- 21,000 5er? is it much different from Ram 3500?

[Cummins12V98]

forkedhorn wrote:
I was just interested in looking into the 450. I have pulled a 40 foot Montana loaded up at about 19,000 all over the West and Canada with the Ram 3500. Moving up to about 23,000 might mean the 450 would be better with 4.10 or bigger rear.?? Would rather stay with a new Longhorn/aiasin trans.
May order a Luxe 42RL

Why would you want to do that?

I tow a 23K Mobile Suites combined load 33K. When I tow my Motorcycle trailer with two Cruiser bikes the load is 35K. I am at my RAWR, under my FAWR and under my GCVWR. My truck handles the load VERY well in all conditions towing the Western USA. Up and down 14% several mile grades with cool brakes at the bottom and cool temps at the top!

Cummins with CP3 injection pump, AISIN trans are true Medium Duty!

This combo I averaged 8.5 mpg SoCal to NW WA.

[drwwicks]

If a person is using the onboard fuel calculations to use for quoting fuel economy then they are delusional and kidding themselves. Not sure about other brands, but Ford wildly inflates the readings for MPG in the computer. My last 150 and current 250 both would show 21-23 driving flat ground, not towing, and an amount of fuel used. Bottom line it's off by about 10%. If the computer says I have used 18 gallons, it takes around 20 to fill. Haven't towed with the 250 yet enough to see what figures it tries to BS me with but I expect the 10% or worse reality.

Miles recorded by a reliable GPS, vehicle odometers are also unreliable, vs actual gallons used is the only way to check. Several fillups are required for any real time usable information. On my previous Ram 3500 CC 4WD dually towing a 15K toy hauler I would get around 8+-. One time in west TX with a 30 mph tailwind I got around 12. So I guess in the BS world I can say I got 12.

[4x4ord]

laknox wrote:


I've never been able to figure out why it's so hard for the mfrs not to use a "net fuel" type mileage readout. I mean, it's pretty easy to measure fluid flow in a pipe; you've got fuel going to the engine and excess fuel returning to the tank. Net the in and out fuel and divide by the distance. D@mn simple, if you ask me and, basically what you do with a hand-calc.

Lyle

The concept of measuring fuel economy is simole .... that's not the problem. You can buy fuel flow meters that will accurately measure and calculate fuel economy but the meters can't be that simple. They are certainly not cheap. How many people would be willing to pay an extra $1000 to have an accurate mpg readout? I think I know the answer to that question.

[1jeep]

My f350 with the 4:30 gears is rated for 26k lbs, I don't see why a ram or GM 3500 drw with the proper gearing wouldnt move 19k lbs.

advantage to the 450 would be the widetrack front axle and g rated tires.

[forkedhorn]

I was just interested in looking into the 450. I have pulled a 40 foot Montana loaded up at about 19,000 all over the West and Canada with the Ram 3500. Moving up to about 23,000 might mean the 450 would be better with 4.10 or bigger rear.?? Would rather stay with a new Longhorn/aiasin trans.
May order a Luxe 42RL

[rbcamping]

SabreCanuck wrote:

laknox wrote:

SabreCanuck wrote:
There is one thing that is perfectly clear on this topic. It is virtually impossible to compare ACTUAL mileage from one user to the next due to the various methods of calculation....

But, I agree that most will get 8-10 towing and 15-20 not towing. Go pick your favorite color.

What "various methods" are there? Fuel used divided by distance is pretty simple and I can't think of any other way to do it. Works for any measuring system, too. :H

Lyle

Lyle - You can argue that the calculation is simple, yes but getting the actual NUMBERS is where the various methods come in.

FUEL USED - Dash reading? Imperial or US gallon? Amount at fuel pump? If so, was tank completely topped off on first tank and not topped off on second tank or vice/versa?

DISTANCE - Dash? Odometer? HubOdometer? GPS? Rand McNally? Google Maps? PC*Miler? Any variation of the thousand "miles travelled" software will give you different readings, sometimes different between versions of the same software. Did the user arbitrarily add/subtract 4% due to tire size. Did they take into consideration tire wear as well then? What was the % added to, the dash Odometer which is off compared to GPS to begin with?

My comment was that all comparisons are never measured THE SAME
and therefore impossible to compare without knowing the EXACT way of measure for every single comment. It is a broad statement.

There's one major issue with this on modern vehicles. Fuel temp changes the volume dramatically. You would have to measure the temperature entering the engine and the temperature of the fuel as it returns to the tank plus the temperature at the start of your trip and the final temperature in the tank upon completion to really be accurate. The temperature in my tank will sometimes reach 135*.

[SabreCanuck]

laknox wrote:

SabreCanuck wrote:
There is one thing that is perfectly clear on this topic. It is virtually impossible to compare ACTUAL mileage from one user to the next due to the various methods of calculation....

But, I agree that most will get 8-10 towing and 15-20 not towing. Go pick your favorite color.

What "various methods" are there? Fuel used divided by distance is pretty simple and I can't think of any other way to do it. Works for any measuring system, too. :H

Lyle

Lyle - You can argue that the calculation is simple, yes but getting the actual NUMBERS is where the various methods come in.

FUEL USED - Dash reading? Imperial or US gallon? Amount at fuel pump? If so, was tank completely topped off on first tank and not topped off on second tank or vice/versa?

DISTANCE - Dash? Odometer? HubOdometer? GPS? Rand McNally? Google Maps? PC*Miler? Any variation of the thousand "miles travelled" software will give you different readings, sometimes different between versions of the same software. Did the user arbitrarily add/subtract 4% due to tire size. Did they take into consideration tire wear as well then? What was the % added to, the dash Odometer which is off compared to GPS to begin with?

My comment was that all comparisons are never measured THE SAME
and therefore impossible to compare without knowing the EXACT way of measure for every single comment. It is a broad statement.

[laknox]

SabreCanuck wrote:
There is one thing that is perfectly clear on this topic. It is virtually impossible to compare ACTUAL mileage from one user to the next due to the various methods of calculation....

But, I agree that most will get 8-10 towing and 15-20 not towing. Go pick your favorite color.

What "various methods" are there? Fuel used divided by distance is pretty simple and I can't think of any other way to do it. Works for any measuring system, too. :H

Lyle

[laknox]

rbcamping wrote:

laknox wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
My 98 with 3rd gen take offs for tires I had to add 5% to my miles driven then divide by gallons to be ACCURATE.

Going from the OEM 245s to 265s on my truck puts me 4% =under= actual on the speedo/odo. I add 4 miles for every 100 when calc'ing mpg. It DO make a difference! For speed, I use my ScanGauge II, which is calibrated to read 4% over indicated and is within 0.5 mph of my GPS. OTOH, my '11 Sonata reads 4% HIGH, so I get even worse mileage than the liar, er, dash reports. Before I realized the odo error, I would get 1-1.5 mpg LESS than the dash reported, around town. On the highway, it's about 1.5-2.5 mpg difference. Add that 4% error on top, and I lose about 12 miles per highway tank, which boosts that difference to 2.5-3.5 mpg. Hyundai keeps telling me that I'm "within spec". Yeah, right... Oh, tires are OEM size.

Lyle

This is mostly true for gas, not diesel. diesel engines are true heat engines compared to gas engines, they only need an amount of fuel (energy, fuel) to move their parts. There are several things that affect fuel efficiency in a diesel engine which are friction, and power efficiency from fuel burn. EGRs affect efficiency, Injection events and timing affect efficiency, and heat loss affects efficiency

So if you have more injection events that happen after top dead center, you burn more fuel, if your egr is running, you burn more fuel because you lose power and must make it up by adding more fuel. Friction losses and engine design are pretty obvious

First off, what does this have to do with the fact that my tire size is different than the OEM, so throws everything off? Second, what does this have to do with the fact that my Sonata's speedo/odo is so far out of whack? :h

I've never been able to figure out why it's so hard for the mfrs not to use a "net fuel" type mileage readout. I mean, it's pretty easy to measure fluid flow in a pipe; you've got fuel going to the engine and excess fuel returning to the tank. Net the in and out fuel and divide by the distance. D@mn simple, if you ask me and, basically what you do with a hand-calc. Now, if your odo is off, you'll still get errors, so this is where GPS distance is useful.

Lyle

[David_and_Chris]

I drive a 2007 F350 6.0 dzl pulling a 36' cedar creek. My average mpg from upstate NY to DelMarVa is around 10-15 dependent upon: headwinds weather and traffic. I maintain 1500RPM's for average speed(around 59 mph.) Unhooked I will average approx. 12-18 mpg.

David

[SabreCanuck]

There is one thing that is perfectly clear on this topic. It is virtually impossible to compare ACTUAL mileage from one user to the next due to the various methods of calculation....

But, I agree that most will get 8-10 towing and 15-20 not towing. Go pick your favorite color.

[Goostoff]

Just get what you want and be thankful that you dont get the same 3MPG, yes thats right, 3MPG

[rbcamping]

laknox wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
My 98 with 3rd gen take offs for tires I had to add 5% to my miles driven then divide by gallons to be ACCURATE.

Going from the OEM 245s to 265s on my truck puts me 4% =under= actual on the speedo/odo. I add 4 miles for every 100 when calc'ing mpg. It DO make a difference! For speed, I use my ScanGauge II, which is calibrated to read 4% over indicated and is within 0.5 mph of my GPS. OTOH, my '11 Sonata reads 4% HIGH, so I get even worse mileage than the liar, er, dash reports. Before I realized the odo error, I would get 1-1.5 mpg LESS than the dash reported, around town. On the highway, it's about 1.5-2.5 mpg difference. Add that 4% error on top, and I lose about 12 miles per highway tank, which boosts that difference to 2.5-3.5 mpg. Hyundai keeps telling me that I'm "within spec". Yeah, right... Oh, tires are OEM size.

Lyle

This is mostly true for gas, not diesel. diesel engines are true heat engines compared to gas engines, they only need an amount of fuel (energy, fuel) to move their parts. There are several things that affect fuel efficiency in a diesel engine which are friction, and power efficiency from fuel burn. EGRs affect efficiency, Injection events and timing affect efficiency, and heat loss affects efficiency

So if you have more injection events that happen after top dead center, you burn more fuel, if your egr is running, you burn more fuel because you lose power and must make it up by adding more fuel. Friction losses and engine design are pretty obvious

[laknox]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
My 98 with 3rd gen take offs for tires I had to add 5% to my miles driven then divide by gallons to be ACCURATE.

Going from the OEM 245s to 265s on my truck puts me 4% =under= actual on the speedo/odo. I add 4 miles for every 100 when calc'ing mpg. It DO make a difference! For speed, I use my ScanGauge II, which is calibrated to read 4% over indicated and is within 0.5 mph of my GPS. OTOH, my '11 Sonata reads 4% HIGH, so I get even worse mileage than the liar, er, dash reports. Before I realized the odo error, I would get 1-1.5 mpg LESS than the dash reported, around town. On the highway, it's about 1.5-2.5 mpg difference. Add that 4% error on top, and I lose about 12 miles per highway tank, which boosts that difference to 2.5-3.5 mpg. Hyundai keeps telling me that I'm "within spec". Yeah, right... Oh, tires are OEM size.

Lyle