Toyota T100/lightweight 5th wheel - axle upgrade?

[noahrexion]

Hello everyone I've got a few questions about my new (to me) 5th wheel. Hoping to get some insight on!

TV = 1996 Toyota T100 X-Cab/4WD, V6/5spd Manual (5200 lb tow rating)

* Scaled with 3/4 fuel, couple misc items = 3950 lbs (scaled twice actually)
* Installed is a Pull Rite Superglide 15k (model 2700) mounted 1" ahead of axle
* Payload rated @ 1960 lbs, GVWR @ 6000 lbs
* Hitch = 225 lbs with rails/brackets and everything, me/kids/wife/inside gear and food = 425

3950 + 225 + 425 = 4600 lbs (4700 with bumper hitch install in future)

GVWR of 6000 - 4600 = 1400 lbs (may add bumper hitch in future which will detract a bit)


My 5th wheel is a 1982 Lance model 1881. This is a single axle 19' unit that was actually designed to be pulled by the earlier Japanese pickups. Dry weight = 2385 and per the label with propane and a full freshwater tank and such it is 2693 lbs I am guessing that with the A/C unit removal and the gear we'll throw in, that it'll be closer to about 2900 - 3000 lbs when road ready.

For "estimation" only I am looking at a 600 lb pin weight. I was told by the last owner it was about 450 lbs but I've yet to bring everything over the scales to see. Worst case at 600 lbs this puts me at about (with new bumper hitch) 5300 lbs GVWR.

I just got some new tires for the truck and the approximate 900 lbs in rear are way under rear GAWR. I feel pretty good with all of the numbers so far. I have pulled (when I had bumper hitch on) up to about 4000 lbs with this truck and I felt very comfy at that. I am hoping the 5th tows even better.

Here is where I was hoping to get some insight:

I am basically done fixing up this camper and ready to roll. My last planned upgrade was the axle/suspension/tire setup on the 5th wheel. It currently has a single 3500 lb axle, 205/75-14 tires load range D @ 1760lbs each, 1750 lb 3 leaf springs...etc Its basically good for 3500 lbs That is fine by me, however, in my experience bigger (on brakes/bearings/tires) has always seemed a bit "safer"

Since I'd like a bit of a lift on the 5th wheel anyway, I was thinking of upgrading to a Dexter 5200lb axle (with the outer 6k bearings) but using a 225/75R-15 tire with a 2000-2150 lb rating (limit = 4,000 lbs) and some 4 leaf springs that'll hold 4,000 lbs also. Basically giving this rig a higher safety cap with all components while NOT overly springing the unit giving it to much bounce and such.

Seeing as how the trailer will be right at about 3,000 lbs loaded and ready am I going overkill here? The current axle is a 4" drop and I'm replacing everything under there regardless - should I just stick with a 3500 lb axle and springs? Tires will be upgraded regardless of the axle I go to since a 15" wheel can be either 5 lug (3500 lbs axle) or 6 lug (5200/6000lb axle) and the 225/75-15 puts me right at the correct height to give me the ~ 6" of bed clearance under my 5th wheel.

ANY and ALL comments are welcomed about anything in the post. I realize this is not a very common setup, tow vehicle or 5th wheel - but the principles all apply. Thanks much!

[noahrexion]

I appreciate all the feedback about the tranny, but I have a manual transmission as I stated earlier. I am not worried about its temps or ruining it by pulling 3000 lbs.

I went on my maiden voyage yesterday, and everything went great except for the nose high 5th. I'll be installing the regular axle and larger wheels and tires soon to level it out. Bed rail clearance was plenty at about 10"!

I did have some clunking when changing from forward to reverse and visa versa. I'll have to reread the superglide manual to see why that may be. 90 degree angles = 4" clearance! This hitch is fantastic.

[rtazz17]

The riser isnt for bed rail install.The riser goes hand in hand with the pullrite superglide that attaches to frame rails.Hitch is then dropped onto pins coming up from frame rails.Im nut sure if there is a riser for the in bed rails from pullrite.I bought all my hitch stuff from tweeteys.com... Check there.

I will say and I dont know how much weight you are pulling but if the tranny doesnt have any cooling you will prolly toast that fluid going up any substantial inclines.Obviously toasting the fluid means toasting the tranny.I would def try to get something to monitor your transmission temps.Not the dummy guage either.Then you will know for certain where your at.No matter what its good to know your exact tranny temp anytime your towing.Could save you thousands in long run.

[Allworth]

You can like them all you want, but that transmission is still the weak point. Stay on level ground! (Or go downhill all the time.)

[filrupmark]

Go with 6" Minimum clearance between top of bed and trailer.

[noahrexion]

I'm still waiting on my capture plate to install on the 5th wheel. The picture has obviously stirred up some folks about bed rail clearance. I was parked there so my wife had room in our driveway to get around me - the 5th is NOT hooked up nor do I even have a hitch installed in the bed either. To boot, the 5th isn't even leveled front to back in the picture either. I will definitely be lifting - I'm going from a drop axle to a straight (should net about 3.5" immediately) and also going with larger tires (1") and possibly a spring pack that has an extra spring as well (should also new 0.25"). THe clearance will be good to go and the rig will be leveled and balanced well.

I am most concerned about whether or not I'm needlessly spending money on a heavier axle - along with the heavier springs that they'll bear with it (4k lbs instead of 3500 lbs) . I don't want it bouncing all over the road, especially since its so small/light to begin with and its only axle isn't too far behind mine.
Is your riser installed on your (ISR) industry standard rails? I may have to look into that. I should find out tomorrow after I install my capture plate and hookup for the first time exactly how it'll sit (pre lift).


Dannyabear1:

1) I couldn't disagree more, I think the 5VZ is adequate for its size/weight totally - of the three I've owned (and current) get about 16-19mpg in town and 18- 23 hwy. Towing 4k lbs civic/trailer @ 55mph dropped it pretty good, by about 5mpg on hwy.

2) Capacity is small? My 2 row is the same size as Tacoma and 4Runner radiators that share the same motor. Small in what way? I did just replace my t belt and such and my motor got a new water pump/thermo/coolant to boot. Mine is a 5 speed manual, I haven't owned (nor would I) an automatic and wasn't aware tranny cooling wasn't offered from factory (aside from the stock radiator trans cooler).

3) That is true, I was very concerned about this. I have the rails placing the weight/center of pin 1" ahead of axle and if I didn't have the superglide (which is adjustable with its base feet towards rear, not to mention the 14" slide feature) I'd be in trouble. I called them and gave them my specs before purchasing the hitch - supposedly I should have 3" clearance cab:5th minimum
Keep in mind this 5th wheel is pretty narrow, Its about 6' 8" total width as well

4) My suspension/shocks are new and in fantastic shape, mine doesn't. I also have a set of load levelers if needed, but I'll hold off and see how it takes the weight first. It sounds to me like your truck may have some cooling problems, or otherwise.

I've used Tacomas, T100's and Tundras extensively for work/pleasure/offroad and have come back to the T100 a few times already and don't think I'll get rid of this one before I give it to my son. I'm well within manufacturers limits on ALL figures with change to spare; I'm pretty confident this'll be a worthwhile endeavor for my family. (sold our Toyota Dolphin over a year ago)

[Dannyabear1]

As an actual owner of a T100, i'll add my 2 cents
1 The 3.4 v6 is severly underpower for these trucks, they typically get better fuel milage in town than on the highway.
2 The cooling system is very small and no trans cooling
3 The rear wheels in this model is well forward of the center of the bed; fifth
wheel hitches are generally located a few inches forward of the rear axle, which in this case will put the camper hitting the cab when turning
4 Mine will squat about 3" with just a 600# motorcycle in the bed, and if I put the m/c on a 10' utility trailer, it makes the engine almost run hot just going down the highway.

[rtazz17]

noahrexion wrote:
It is about 3" or so, this is part of the reason I'm lifting. Although in the pic I'm not hooked up.

Ok,i figured part of reason was to gain more hieght.If I only had three inches space my rails would be crushed before I got out of my driveway with the uneven terrain I go around.I have about 7-8 inches clearance.Pullrite sells a three inch riser for the hitch you have.I have the riser on my pullrite.Its about 100 bucks If I recall.I believe its only for the kit that uses the frame rails.If yours is bolted into your bed then I dont think you can use it.

[diesel_man_03]

I though the same thing on the distance between the cab and 5'er, yes the 3inches is not enough.

[noahrexion]

It is about 3" or so, this is part of the reason I'm lifting. Although in the pic I'm not hooked up.

[laknox]

rtazz17 wrote:
How much room do you have between bed rails and camper.Pic may be deceiving but looks very close.

Exactly my first thought on seeing the pictures.

Lyle

[rtazz17]

How much room do you have between bed rails and camper.Pic may be deceiving but looks very close.

[colliehauler]

noahrexion wrote:
Thanks for the feedback thus far.

Part of the reason I was thinking the 5200/6k lb axle would be even better would be having the 12x2 brakes that would be working "not as hard" technically.

Colliehauler - any reason you recommend the 3500# axle?

Here is my rig

On rough roads the hevier spring pack would beat the heck out of the RV. The closer to the weight of the trailer would be a softer ride. Brakes on a 3500# axle should stop that light of a trailer without any problems. I ordered in a trailer to haul a UTV that had 2- 3500# axles, might as well had no springs very rough riding.

[noahrexion]

Thanks for the feedback thus far.

Part of the reason I was thinking the 5200/6k lb axle would be even better would be having the 12x2 brakes that would be working "not as hard" technically.

Colliehauler - any reason you recommend the 3500# axle?

Here is my rig

[colliehauler]

I would stay with the 3500# axle.