Very frustrating situation, going to blow some steam!

[PFM]

I am not sure where to even start, but here it goes! Have been an Rv enthusiast for 10 yrs now, but the time it takes to keep up on the Rv is taking its toll on me. Our current rig is a CC Silverback, bunkhouse. Did a lot of research before we purchased and this fit the bill for us. Going to point out the major issues and how they were corrected and what I have done to prevent further issues. Our 4th trip out in 09 our axles literally shifted going down the highway (the welds broke that held the leaf springs to frame). We hit a guard rail and actually shut the highway down on Labor Day weekend. After a lot of going back and forth frame company and manufacturer made all repairs (very long story and an unbelievable amount of finger pointing). The following spring noticed issues in front bedroom. Again, after a lot of dialogue with manufacturer they said there is an issue. Turns out the frame was broken and flexed causing issues in front end. Manufacturer came and picked up at my house and took back to factory and made repairs. They said when done they would bring back to me, I declined I said I would come to Indiana and pick up myself. I spent 4 days out there going to different manufacturers and RV related companies to educate myself on proper care and what I can do as a consumer to make the RV experience more enjoyable ( up to this point it has been a pain). So after many testimonials I installed 4 new Goodyear G rated tires, bought 2 spares, installed a Trailaire hitch, installed Moryde independent suspension and 4 wheel disc brakes. I felt I have done everything possible to do the right thing. Our camper is used an average of 4 times per year ( 1 week for vacation and holiday weekends). Last year it was used twice, and this year twice, wife had health issues and we have debated selling it, but kids still love it and I have a "love/hate relationship with this thing. Anyway, as I was setting it on the truck I heard a big "snap" and now front end is separated at trim pieces. After a month long conversation with frame company and manufacturer (lots of pictures sent and measurements), everyone determined there is an "issue", but nobody really wants to do anything about it till maybe next March. I offered to bring it out and would even pay for repairs. But I am getting blown off I feel. Yes all issues are documented with our "vin" number. Every year I have it weighed also. We are an average of 1800lbs under GVWR, fully loaded for us! So needless to say, I didn't want to wait until next March so I have had the daunting task of ripping the front end apart (the underbelly and taking off the front cap). So far, all the trim is ruined, the front baggage door is ruined and the sheeting for the underbelly under the hitch is ruined. These things ARE NOT designed to come apart easily. All the caulk that is used to hold it together is crazy! Estimated cost of parts so far is going to be around $700. I haven't even gotten to the welding part yet, my RV is stored inside in climate controlled conditions. It actually looks brand new still and get compliments ALL the time on its condition. Very fortunate to be able to keep it indoors. But I do not mind basic maintenance issues, but this is stuff out of my control and I am getting very frustrated with the BIG stuff happening. I keep debating wether to just walk away from the whole RVing experience, but over the years we have met SO many great people out there!! Actually thinking about after making repairs getting a new one, but I don't want to have to start all over again making repairs on something new......Now I am just babbling about stuff. The whole situation is just frustrating!! Thanks for listening everyone

[bstark]

shepstone wrote:

bstark wrote:

MM49 wrote:

bstark wrote:

MM49 wrote:

bstark wrote:

MM49 wrote:
I'll believe it when I see the photos. Trailer frames don't just snap. The frames are mild steel and bend more than break.
The OP needs to categorize the problems and not just let them build up in his mind. There are (1) factory issues. (2)Dealer issues, (3) maintenance, issues, at times it might feel like all you are doing is working on the RV, but things change. You eventually move to a different location on the curve.
MM49

Oh yeah they do indeed snap! There have been many, many cases documented showing frame failures with symptoms from "snapping to tearing".

Frame failures

Peruse the search feature of these very boards with inputs like "Lippert frame failure" as an example and you will even find threads dating back to at least 2005 with detailed photo coverage of the very problem the O/P is currently dealing with.

Of particular note are posts by poster "ib516" detailing his experience.

Yea, right. Frame failure on a trailer that is used four times a year. It must be failing on the south side of trailer from sun inflection???? I think that OP just wants a little attention.
MM49

Well if you're not satisfied with the link I provided earlier detailing situations of just this type of problem the O/P is posting about, giving you at least some pause for consideration of his truthfulness, I really don't see what else it would take for you to be convinced other than for you, god forbid, to experience a similar failure.

Just one more example: Frame failure

I also found this posted on Consumer Affairs:


Alan of East Tawas, MI on June 2, 2014
Satisfaction Rating
1/5 ?

We purchased a 50th Anniversary Edition Freedom Express Trailer. We took one trip came back home put on tire covers to discover that the frame was cracked, we went to the other side of the trailer and it was cracked there also. We contacted General RV in Birch Run and Coachman. Coachman said 'THEY HAVE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM LIKE THIS BEFORE. Their remedy was to send out a repairman from Lippert who produces the frame for the trailers. He proceed to do a weld on both sides. They expected us to pay full price for a welded trailer.

We told them before they started repairs that we want no cobbled up welding job, we paid for new and expect new. We told Coachman if ours is so rare of a problem take it back and analysis it so it doesn't happen again. We have filed claim with BBB against General RV and Atty general complaint in Indiana against Coachman. So far no one will accept responsibility for the poor quality of the coach. We did nothing to cause a frame to crack in 2 months. This is the worse customer service ever. I plan to go to Trailer Life, Good Sam and anyone else that will listen. COACHMAN DOES NOT STAND BEHIND THEIR PRODUCT.
?
add your response

Helpful?YesNo

It has and does happen. It has even happened during delivery runs from factory to dealers. Talk to those guys when you meet them at fuel stops; the horror stories will make you cringe.

Canadian
MM49

And??

I'm guessing thats some kind of a lame fall back position :R

I suppose, but even "lame" is a charitable word to describe it if indeed that is his best option.

Kind of a tough crowd on here now with some being critical of posters for all the wrong reasons.

In providing more than enough links to at least validate the possibility the O/P is having a genuine problem of the nature he describes; this one poster seems unable to grasp the concept they're not built to the same standards as your neighbour's Lexus.

I'm left wondering if he's a just a "cheerleader" (common as no owner wants to face the prospect his is subject to same failings as others) for the brand, a dealer or rep with a vested interest.

Oh well.

[shepstone]

bstark wrote:

MM49 wrote:

bstark wrote:

MM49 wrote:

bstark wrote:

MM49 wrote:
I'll believe it when I see the photos. Trailer frames don't just snap. The frames are mild steel and bend more than break.
The OP needs to categorize the problems and not just let them build up in his mind. There are (1) factory issues. (2)Dealer issues, (3) maintenance, issues, at times it might feel like all you are doing is working on the RV, but things change. You eventually move to a different location on the curve.
MM49

Oh yeah they do indeed snap! There have been many, many cases documented showing frame failures with symptoms from "snapping to tearing".

Frame failures

Peruse the search feature of these very boards with inputs like "Lippert frame failure" as an example and you will even find threads dating back to at least 2005 with detailed photo coverage of the very problem the O/P is currently dealing with.

Of particular note are posts by poster "ib516" detailing his experience.

Yea, right. Frame failure on a trailer that is used four times a year. It must be failing on the south side of trailer from sun inflection???? I think that OP just wants a little attention.
MM49

Well if you're not satisfied with the link I provided earlier detailing situations of just this type of problem the O/P is posting about, giving you at least some pause for consideration of his truthfulness, I really don't see what else it would take for you to be convinced other than for you, god forbid, to experience a similar failure.

Just one more example: Frame failure

I also found this posted on Consumer Affairs:


Alan of East Tawas, MI on June 2, 2014
Satisfaction Rating
1/5 ?

We purchased a 50th Anniversary Edition Freedom Express Trailer. We took one trip came back home put on tire covers to discover that the frame was cracked, we went to the other side of the trailer and it was cracked there also. We contacted General RV in Birch Run and Coachman. Coachman said 'THEY HAVE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM LIKE THIS BEFORE. Their remedy was to send out a repairman from Lippert who produces the frame for the trailers. He proceed to do a weld on both sides. They expected us to pay full price for a welded trailer.

We told them before they started repairs that we want no cobbled up welding job, we paid for new and expect new. We told Coachman if ours is so rare of a problem take it back and analysis it so it doesn't happen again. We have filed claim with BBB against General RV and Atty general complaint in Indiana against Coachman. So far no one will accept responsibility for the poor quality of the coach. We did nothing to cause a frame to crack in 2 months. This is the worse customer service ever. I plan to go to Trailer Life, Good Sam and anyone else that will listen. COACHMAN DOES NOT STAND BEHIND THEIR PRODUCT.
?
add your response

Helpful?YesNo

It has and does happen. It has even happened during delivery runs from factory to dealers. Talk to those guys when you meet them at fuel stops; the horror stories will make you cringe.

Canadian
MM49

And??

I'm guessing thats some kind of a lame fall back position :R

[bstark]

MM49 wrote:

bstark wrote:

MM49 wrote:

bstark wrote:

MM49 wrote:
I'll believe it when I see the photos. Trailer frames don't just snap. The frames are mild steel and bend more than break.
The OP needs to categorize the problems and not just let them build up in his mind. There are (1) factory issues. (2)Dealer issues, (3) maintenance, issues, at times it might feel like all you are doing is working on the RV, but things change. You eventually move to a different location on the curve.
MM49

Oh yeah they do indeed snap! There have been many, many cases documented showing frame failures with symptoms from "snapping to tearing".

Frame failures

Peruse the search feature of these very boards with inputs like "Lippert frame failure" as an example and you will even find threads dating back to at least 2005 with detailed photo coverage of the very problem the O/P is currently dealing with.

Of particular note are posts by poster "ib516" detailing his experience.

Yea, right. Frame failure on a trailer that is used four times a year. It must be failing on the south side of trailer from sun inflection???? I think that OP just wants a little attention.
MM49

Well if you're not satisfied with the link I provided earlier detailing situations of just this type of problem the O/P is posting about, giving you at least some pause for consideration of his truthfulness, I really don't see what else it would take for you to be convinced other than for you, god forbid, to experience a similar failure.

Just one more example: Frame failure

I also found this posted on Consumer Affairs:


Alan of East Tawas, MI on June 2, 2014
Satisfaction Rating
1/5 ?

We purchased a 50th Anniversary Edition Freedom Express Trailer. We took one trip came back home put on tire covers to discover that the frame was cracked, we went to the other side of the trailer and it was cracked there also. We contacted General RV in Birch Run and Coachman. Coachman said 'THEY HAVE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM LIKE THIS BEFORE. Their remedy was to send out a repairman from Lippert who produces the frame for the trailers. He proceed to do a weld on both sides. They expected us to pay full price for a welded trailer.

We told them before they started repairs that we want no cobbled up welding job, we paid for new and expect new. We told Coachman if ours is so rare of a problem take it back and analysis it so it doesn't happen again. We have filed claim with BBB against General RV and Atty general complaint in Indiana against Coachman. So far no one will accept responsibility for the poor quality of the coach. We did nothing to cause a frame to crack in 2 months. This is the worse customer service ever. I plan to go to Trailer Life, Good Sam and anyone else that will listen. COACHMAN DOES NOT STAND BEHIND THEIR PRODUCT.
?
add your response

Helpful?YesNo

It has and does happen. It has even happened during delivery runs from factory to dealers. Talk to those guys when you meet them at fuel stops; the horror stories will make you cringe.

Canadian
MM49

And??

[MM49]

bstark wrote:

MM49 wrote:

bstark wrote:

MM49 wrote:
I'll believe it when I see the photos. Trailer frames don't just snap. The frames are mild steel and bend more than break.
The OP needs to categorize the problems and not just let them build up in his mind. There are (1) factory issues. (2)Dealer issues, (3) maintenance, issues, at times it might feel like all you are doing is working on the RV, but things change. You eventually move to a different location on the curve.
MM49

Oh yeah they do indeed snap! There have been many, many cases documented showing frame failures with symptoms from "snapping to tearing".

Frame failures

Peruse the search feature of these very boards with inputs like "Lippert frame failure" as an example and you will even find threads dating back to at least 2005 with detailed photo coverage of the very problem the O/P is currently dealing with.

Of particular note are posts by poster "ib516" detailing his experience.

Yea, right. Frame failure on a trailer that is used four times a year. It must be failing on the south side of trailer from sun inflection???? I think that OP just wants a little attention.
MM49

Well if you're not satisfied with the link I provided earlier detailing situations of just this type of problem the O/P is posting about, giving you at least some pause for consideration of his truthfulness, I really don't see what else it would take for you to be convinced other than for you, god forbid, to experience a similar failure.

Just one more example: Frame failure

I also found this posted on Consumer Affairs:


Alan of East Tawas, MI on June 2, 2014
Satisfaction Rating
1/5 ?

We purchased a 50th Anniversary Edition Freedom Express Trailer. We took one trip came back home put on tire covers to discover that the frame was cracked, we went to the other side of the trailer and it was cracked there also. We contacted General RV in Birch Run and Coachman. Coachman said 'THEY HAVE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM LIKE THIS BEFORE. Their remedy was to send out a repairman from Lippert who produces the frame for the trailers. He proceed to do a weld on both sides. They expected us to pay full price for a welded trailer.

We told them before they started repairs that we want no cobbled up welding job, we paid for new and expect new. We told Coachman if ours is so rare of a problem take it back and analysis it so it doesn't happen again. We have filed claim with BBB against General RV and Atty general complaint in Indiana against Coachman. So far no one will accept responsibility for the poor quality of the coach. We did nothing to cause a frame to crack in 2 months. This is the worse customer service ever. I plan to go to Trailer Life, Good Sam and anyone else that will listen. COACHMAN DOES NOT STAND BEHIND THEIR PRODUCT.
?
add your response

Helpful?YesNo

It has and does happen. It has even happened during delivery runs from factory to dealers. Talk to those guys when you meet them at fuel stops; the horror stories will make you cringe.

Canadian
MM49

[bstark]

MM49 wrote:

bstark wrote:

MM49 wrote:
I'll believe it when I see the photos. Trailer frames don't just snap. The frames are mild steel and bend more than break.
The OP needs to categorize the problems and not just let them build up in his mind. There are (1) factory issues. (2)Dealer issues, (3) maintenance, issues, at times it might feel like all you are doing is working on the RV, but things change. You eventually move to a different location on the curve.
MM49

Oh yeah they do indeed snap! There have been many, many cases documented showing frame failures with symptoms from "snapping to tearing".

Frame failures

Peruse the search feature of these very boards with inputs like "Lippert frame failure" as an example and you will even find threads dating back to at least 2005 with detailed photo coverage of the very problem the O/P is currently dealing with.

Of particular note are posts by poster "ib516" detailing his experience.

Yea, right. Frame failure on a trailer that is used four times a year. It must be failing on the south side of trailer from sun inflection???? I think that OP just wants a little attention.
MM49

Well if you're not satisfied with the link I provided earlier detailing situations of just this type of problem the O/P is posting about, giving you at least some pause for consideration of his truthfulness, I really don't see what else it would take for you to be convinced other than for you, god forbid, to experience a similar failure.

Just one more example: Frame failure

I also found this posted on Consumer Affairs:


Alan of East Tawas, MI on June 2, 2014
Satisfaction Rating
1/5 ?

We purchased a 50th Anniversary Edition Freedom Express Trailer. We took one trip came back home put on tire covers to discover that the frame was cracked, we went to the other side of the trailer and it was cracked there also. We contacted General RV in Birch Run and Coachman. Coachman said 'THEY HAVE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM LIKE THIS BEFORE. Their remedy was to send out a repairman from Lippert who produces the frame for the trailers. He proceed to do a weld on both sides. They expected us to pay full price for a welded trailer.

We told them before they started repairs that we want no cobbled up welding job, we paid for new and expect new. We told Coachman if ours is so rare of a problem take it back and analysis it so it doesn't happen again. We have filed claim with BBB against General RV and Atty general complaint in Indiana against Coachman. So far no one will accept responsibility for the poor quality of the coach. We did nothing to cause a frame to crack in 2 months. This is the worse customer service ever. I plan to go to Trailer Life, Good Sam and anyone else that will listen. COACHMAN DOES NOT STAND BEHIND THEIR PRODUCT.
?
add your response

Helpful?YesNo

It has and does happen. It has even happened during delivery runs from factory to dealers. Talk to those guys when you meet them at fuel stops; the horror stories will make you cringe.

[MM49]

bstark wrote:

MM49 wrote:
I'll believe it when I see the photos. Trailer frames don't just snap. The frames are mild steel and bend more than break.
The OP needs to categorize the problems and not just let them build up in his mind. There are (1) factory issues. (2)Dealer issues, (3) maintenance, issues, at times it might feel like all you are doing is working on the RV, but things change. You eventually move to a different location on the curve.
MM49

Oh yeah they do indeed snap! There have been many, many cases documented showing frame failures with symptoms from "snapping to tearing".

Frame failures

Peruse the search feature of these very boards with inputs like "Lippert frame failure" as an example and you will even find threads dating back to at least 2005 with detailed photo coverage of the very problem the O/P is currently dealing with.

Of particular note are posts by poster "ib516" detailing his experience.

Yea, right. Frame failure on a trailer that is used four times a year. It must be failing on the south side of trailer from sun inflection???? I think that OP just wants a little attention.
MM49

[bpounds]

The moderation has been sorely lacking in the forum for some time now. It has been heavy handed in times past, and now the pendulum has swung the opposite direction.

Let's see if this even gets read!

OP, fix your rig and then sell it. That is the only satisfactory, and morally upright, thing to do.

[bstark]

I haven't been posting here for quite a while now and upon re-visiting I'm appalled at the tendency for many posters to question the veracity and even the intelligence of people posting about a problem they're currently experiencing.

Might I enquire as to how that is productive in any manner at all? You cannot control the "truthfulness" of individuals any more than you can the weather so why not default to the assistance mode and forego the criticism.

You are members of a large fraternity of people who enjoy the RV'ing hobby and as such owe it to each other to be supportive because the next problem you have might be the one someone on here has the solution to from personally going through it.

Wouldn't everyone benefit from someone's input that could save you untold stress and costs related to the tendency of ALL dealers to diagnose common problems on your dime?

That's what these boards are supposed to be about.

[bstark]

MM49 wrote:
I'll believe it when I see the photos. Trailer frames don't just snap. The frames are mild steel and bend more than break.
The OP needs to categorize the problems and not just let them build up in his mind. There are (1) factory issues. (2)Dealer issues, (3) maintenance, issues, at times it might feel like all you are doing is working on the RV, but things change. You eventually move to a different location on the curve.
MM49

Oh yeah they do indeed snap! There have been many, many cases documented showing frame failures with symptoms from "snapping to tearing".

Frame failures

Peruse the search feature of these very boards with inputs like "Lippert frame failure" as an example and you will even find threads dating back to at least 2005 with detailed photo coverage of the very problem the O/P is currently dealing with.

Of particular note are posts by poster "ib516" detailing his experience.

[Dustytuu]

Sounds like you have a lemon. All 5th wheels are not like this. We have been RVing for several years and are on our 4th 5th wheel which we bought for "full timeing". We thankfully have not had this kind of trouble with any of our rigs.

[MM49]

I'll believe it when I see the photos. Trailer frames don't just snap. The frames are mild steel and bend more than break.
The OP needs to categorize the problems and not just let them build up in his mind. There are (1) factory issues. (2)Dealer issues, (3) maintenance, issues, at times it might feel like all you are doing is working on the RV, but things change. You eventually move to a different location on the curve.
MM49

[bstark]

PFM wrote:
For those asking. I am dealing directly with CC. Also it is/was not a light and cheap trailer, so that post is not an accurate statement. I just feel we got the short end of the stick on this RV. But from the sounds of it.....this is not normal, so that is encouraging.

I read to the end of the thread at page 5 before coming back to this and getting on here to tell you that second guessing you and your steps taken so far serves no useful purpose so I won't bother.

My opinion: IF no sidewall damage is evident at corners of front slideout opening, upper and lower AND considering you've already invested in all of the things that would make it a very serviceable and better towing rig like much better suspension and tires etc. My advice would be to carry on regardless - strip all the broken bits and while you've got the underbelly off it giving you access to under the gooseneck framing etc give the thing a good going over with one of those flexible fiber optic scanner tools with a viewer screen.

Find the weak points and cut out and replace the cheap, and poor quality steel "C" channel and replace with thicker wall stuff under there that provides rigidity at the transition from the lower full length frame rails up to the goose neck portion of the framing and provide gussets if replacement of the fiberglass under cover permits the added metal.

Replacing all of the steel members under that goose neck is advised as what you're going to find is fractures in the cheap stuff they use with the metal adjacent to right angle welds made brittle with the bad welding RV builders (Lippert for eg.) are notorious for. You will in all likelihood, find the "C" members have actually ripped about an inch from those welds in multiple places.

Using thicker wall "C" channel of better grade steel fashioned to provide more than factory designed strength to the pin-box area, then replacing all the insulation while addressing any touchy areas you find like hydraulic lines to slideout cylinder, or additional wiring for 115v outlets in bedroom area, cover her all up with new fiberglass and yards of that damn seam caulking.

Now you are at the point of either deciding to sell it, now that it's again saleable OR roll the dice and go down the road secure in the knowledge you've addressed all the lemons in your fruit bowl. IF however, you have the least little 'niggly' doubt about the rig after you've repaired it and are glued to your driver's side mirror waiting for the front end to drop onto your bed rails, then sell the thing and don't look back!

[gmc851]

Since so many people complained about how it was written and NOT what was written here is my attempt at being an editor. (I'm a machinist not an English major)

I am not sure where to even start, but here it goes!

I Have been an RV enthusiast for 10 yrs now, but the time it takes to keep up on the RV is taking its toll on me. Our current rig is a CC Silverback, bunkhouse. Did a lot of research before we purchased and this fit the bill for us.

Going to point out the major issues and how they were corrected and what I have done to prevent further issues.

Our 4th trip out in 09 our axles literally shifted going down the highway (the welds broke that held the leaf springs to frame). We hit a guard rail and actually shut the highway down on Labor Day weekend. After a lot of going back and forth, frame company and manufacturer made all repairs (very long story and an unbelievable amount of finger pointing).

The following spring noticed issues in front bedroom. Again, after a lot of dialogue with manufacturer they said there is an issue. Turns out the frame was broken and flexed causing issues in front end. Manufacturer came and picked up at my house and took back to factory and made repairs.

They said when done they would bring back to me, I declined I said I would come to Indiana and pick up myself. I spent 4 days out there going to different manufacturers and RV related companies to educate myself on proper care and what I can do as a consumer to make the RV experience more enjoyable ( up to this point it has been a pain).

I installed 4 new Goodyear G rated tires, bought 2 spares, installed a Trailaire hitch, installed Moryde independent suspension and 4 wheel disc brakes. I felt I have done everything possible to do the right thing.

Our camper was used an average of 4 times per year ( 1 week for vacation and holiday weekends). Last year it was used twice, and this year twice, (wife had health issues and we have debated selling it), but kids still love it and I have a "love/hate relationship with this thing.

As I was setting it on the truck I heard a big "snap" and now front end is separated at trim pieces. After a month long conversation with frame company and manufacturer (lots of pictures sent and measurements), everyone determined there is an "issue", but nobody really wants to do anything about it till maybe next March. I offered to bring it out and would even pay for repairs. But I feel I am getting blown off. Yes all issues are documented with our "VIN" number.

Every year I have it weighed. We are an average of 1800lbs under GVWR, fully loaded for us!

I didn't want to wait until next March so I have had the daunting task of ripping the front end apart (the underbelly and taking off the front cap). So far, all the trim is ruined, the front baggage door is ruined and the sheeting for the underbelly under the hitch is ruined. These things ARE NOT designed to come apart easily. All the caulk that is used to hold it together is crazy! Estimated cost of parts so far is going to be around $700. I haven't even gotten to the welding part yet. My RV is stored inside in climate controlled conditions. It actually looks brand new still and I get compliments ALL the time on its condition. Very fortunate to be able to keep it indoors. But I do not mind basic maintenance issues, but this is stuff out of my control and I am getting very frustrated with the BIG stuff happening.

I keep debating whether to just walk away from the whole RV'ing experience, but over the years we have met SO many great people out there!! Actually thinking about after making repairs getting a new one, but I don't want to have to start all over again making repairs on something new......

Now I am just babbling about stuff. The whole situation is just frustrating!!

Thanks for listening everyone

I don't mean to offend the OP I just offer this up so other people can read this and maybe give you some guidance.

[lakeside013104]

DannyA wrote:
I have never understood why people criticize people's questions, the way things are written, etc.
If they don't like the way the post looks don't read it.
Most people have sincere questions and problems and just trying to get help, at that time may not be concerned about the way the question looks.
Sounds like you have had more than your share of trouble, as someone said 'Except for the grace of God go I".

Well said!

Lakeside